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Charge Forward Podcast
The Charge Forward Podcast: Dedicated to those who choose to Charge Forward into the Storm when hit with challenges. This is what makes them different and has lead to their success. When in doubt.... Charge Forward!
Charge Forward Podcast
Can Your Body Heal Itself? Regenerative Medicine Explained w/ Dr. Mike Meighen
Is Your Body Capable of Healing Itself? Discover the Truth with Dr. Michael Meighen
What if surgery wasn’t your only option—and your body already had everything it needed to heal?
In this episode of the Charge Forward Podcast, host Jim Cripps sits down with regenerative medicine expert Dr. Michael Meighen of the Centner Wellness Group to explore breakthrough therapies like PRP, prolotherapy, and stem cell treatments that activate your body’s own natural healing systems.
🔥 Learn how:
- Regenerative therapies create targeted acute inflammation to repair injuries
- Jim avoided double knee replacement through adipose-derived stem cell therapy
- Testing your vitamin D, hormones, and blood sugar before procedures boosts healing
- Chronic inflammation silently sabotages recovery and healthspan
- GLP-1 medications like semaglutide can help with more than weight loss
This episode cuts through the confusion around regenerative medicine, offering practical insights into health optimization, longevity, and injury recovery. Whether you're battling chronic pain or just want to age with strength—this conversation could change your approach to healthcare forever.
🎧 Don’t wait until it’s too late—your future self will thank you.
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And what most folks are talking about. That is kind of the bad. Inflammation is more chronic inflammation, acute inflammation, is actually helpful for us to heal, recover and respond to any type of an insult or a problem. I need something different. I'm burnt out. I'm done with what I'm doing right here. I just don't feel like I'm impacting anybody in a positive manner. They maybe see a little bit different way that they can.
Speaker 2:Hey team, jim Cripps here with the charge forward podcast, coming to you from hit lab studios here in Nashville, tennessee. I have a special treat for you today. I have my favorite doctor on the planet. He is neck deep in regenerative medicine and helping all types of people, dr Mike Meehan. He is with the Centner Wellness Group out of Miami. Correct Welcome, dr Mike. Thanks, jim, appreciate it. Good to have you in the Jim. Appreciate it Good to have you in the studio today.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it. It's always good to see you and come back and talk fun stuff that I enjoy and hopefully your listeners will too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Now. We met about five years ago and just in my wellness path and then have become friends over that time. But you started out as an ortho but now neck deep in regenerative medicine. So a lot of people may not even know what I mean when I say regenerative medicine. So if you will kind of give them a little bit of a taste of that, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I'll even go backward one more step, so kind of my origin story, if we want to call it that. So I was in eighth grade playing football and went up for a pass and got hit from the side, broke this right leg through the tibia and fibula, was in a cast for about eight weeks. Everything was peachy, keen and rosy it seemed. And you know went in for my routine followup with my orthopedic surgeon and found out that the growth plate had been injured at the time of the accident and a third was not growing. So it was starting to grow off at a bit of an angle and there wasn't anything they could do to rectify it other than do surgery. So initially they went into my left side and kind of killed the growth plate, so the legs wouldn't be too dramatically different as far as length and then went on the right side and did what's called an osteotomy and stapling, where they cut the bone and kind of pull it more into alignment and then you know, put a couple staples in. So my eighth and ninth grade years were spent doing a lot of time in the hospital and surgery. But in retrospect it kind of kindled my interest for sports medicine, um, orthopedics and you know, therapies and some of the other things, cause I spent a good deal of time doing that. So, um, that's kind of where things started.
Speaker 1:I think most people that get into something either it's the result of experience or maybe a tragedy or something along those lines too. So kind of where I started. And then, you know, that was about the time I decided I was going to go into medicine or go to medical school and did that. And then, you know, went through all the training and you know, residencies, fellowships, all the good things, from that standpoint, came out thinking I knew everything and I was going to fix the world with what I was doing and, you know, came to the realization that there's a lot more things that I didn't know than what I did know, and a lot more nuanced, um than just, hey, you have this, we fix this with this.
Speaker 1:So at the time I was doing a lot of interventional pain procedures, epidurals, nerve blocks, joint injections, other things and, you know, seemed to help for the most part short term but long-term, folks were not getting the responses I was looking for and or continued to struggle with, you know, multiple areas of their health and, you know, really was a bit frustrating for me, um, with you know how the outcomes were going and folks not getting to where I felt that they could or should not through any fault of their own, I think.
Speaker 1:Just you know part of the issue is we didn't really get to the root cause or get to the reason or reasons that they were having some of these issues. So as I was going on in my early career, I was introduced to an organization called the American Association of Orthopedic Medicine and they taught what is called prolotherapy. So basically you inject a substance and primarily what we use now is dextrose. Dextrose is a sugar that is in a good number of IV fluid solutions. So the D5W or D5, half normal, the D is dextrose, it's a corn-based substance. So for the most part pretty well tolerated. And there's other things that have been injected in the past pumice, believe it or not, you know, coming from volcanic ash, basically would stimulate an inflammatory response no longer available, and there's other things that were also introduced in the past.
Speaker 2:But well, I think, I think one of the things that people might think there is and inflammation is bad and it can be or it can be therapeutic, correct? So not all inflammation is bad and it can be or it can be therapeutic.
Speaker 1:Correct. So not all inflammation is the same. So you know it's, it's a buzzword. I mean you hear it a lot in social media and a lot of posts and what most folks are talking about. That is kind of the bad.
Speaker 1:Inflammation is more chronic inflammation. Acute inflammation is actually helpful for us to heal, recover and respond to any type of an insult or a problem. So the downside is, as we tend to treat folks more in the allopathic mode, is we tend to blunt that response. So we use anti-inflammatories, we use steroids or prednisone, we do injectables in order to what I used to do in the past to kind of blunt that response.
Speaker 1:Goal was, yes, it helps with pain, but long-term it kind of blunts the healing response to the point where tissue remains less than optimal, is a bit loose or lax and folks just have a hard time getting back to the level they were previously. So you know, chronic inflammation we can talk about moving forward because we definitely want to optimize that. But what we're doing with regenerative orthopedics or interventions is we're trying to stimulate an acute response or inflammatory response and basically kind of trick your body into healing itself. So we're causing a micro insult or sometimes a little bit more pronounced insult, depending on what we do or use. And then your body rushes in by sending in growth factors and cytokines and your own stem cells and other cells like fibroblasts, which help set down tissues, including proteins and other things.
Speaker 2:From that standpoint, to really try to enhance recovery, so it's kind of like placing a 911 call to your body's response team.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And then we're also using your immune system to kind of help manipulate that as well. And you know, initially it will tend to kind of calm your immune system and then, as it starts to do its job, it tends to help enhance the response of the immune system, which further enhances recovery and outcomes as well.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things out there that people either get confused or don't really understand is you know, I think when people think of your immune system, they think of almost two polar extremes, meaning, oh yeah, that's just what you know gets me through a cold, and then on the other side, they think of immunotherapy for cancer. But there is a lot in between there, correct?
Speaker 1:I mean you've got, you know, multiple cells that will come in. You know your lymphocytes, your macrophages, you know your natural killer cells, your BNT. It's a complicated system and, you know, works incredibly well for the type of things, unfortunately, that we do to it. Then you got your innate response, which is kind of already there, and then your kind of acute, subacute and chronic responses where you get, you know, introduced to bacteria, viruses or any other type of pathogen and your body will kind of respond to it and then have some memory in being able to attack that again. So it's a very complicated system but the good part is we don't necessarily have to think about it now. The concern you get with chronic inflammation and some of the other things is if it's being distracted and or working less than optimally, certain things can propagate. So think, if you have you know, let's just talk COVID or something along those lines. So one of the problems with COVID is, as the body was trying to get rid of that, other things like you know, epstein-barr or other bacteria were able to propagate a bit and a lot of times were causing more issues and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So goals with any form of treatment are to enhance or optimize function of the immune system Doesn't necessarily mean you're turning it up, doesn't mean you're turning it down. You're just trying to give it the best opportunity to heal and recover, and those things can be as simple as optimizing your sleep. Those things can be as simple as, you know, optimizing vitamin D levels can be, you know, optimizing DHEA levels, which is a hormone that is very helpful for enhancing functioning immune system. There's certain peptide therapies that sometimes can be a benefit too. And then, you know, there there are some pharmaceuticals that have a role, and I know we want to villainize the pharmaceutical industry, and to some degree they deserve it. But by the same token they also create drugs that can be helpful in kind of helping reset and kind of get you back to baseline if necessary. So I think the big thing is it's multifactorial as far as the treatment or the intervention, that sort of thing to kind of give you the best opportunity to have the best outcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, one of the things that I think is far too common is people are so ingrained in westernized medicine that they think it's a solution. You're going to give me a pill and it's going to fix me. And it really is a systemic optimization in that you've got to look at all things Correct, even when you go to, uh, your your yearly physical. I think people are, um, willfully uninformed. They, they want to put their blinders on and go. Well, uh, the doctor would have told me if there was anything wrong. And then, at the same time, they want to also be the same person that, when things start failing, they just go.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just part of getting old. And the reality is you don't have to accept those things. You do have to accept responsibility if you're going to fix them Right. Um, but optimization really is from sleep hormones, um, the stresses are stressors in your life Uh, the air you're breathing, the water you're drinking, the food you're putting in your body, the relationships you have or don't have. I mean, it is so multifaceted. If we were looking at it as a lot of times in business or whatnot, they'll have a spoke wheel and it's like the seven spokes of and this is more like a bicycle wheel, in that there's, you know, a thousand spokes or there's 50 spokes, and obviously some of them are more impactful than others, but it really is your environment and what you engage in regularly.
Speaker 1:For sure, and you know it can be daunting at times to kind of look at all those pieces and get ideas and thoughts. And you know there know there's a multitude of tests that can be looked at and you know kind of the magic of it is trying to figure out from you know, your insights and listening to the client or patient as far as history, physical, you know what testing they've had in the past, what are their goals moving forward, what do they want to do or be? I mean it can be kind of all over the map. So, um, and just because you start in one direction doesn't necessarily mean that that's the direction you're going to stay in for the rest of your life. Um, you know, things will change, insults will happen, things will change, insults will happen, life will happen. So it's to some degree kind of like a big old game of whack-a-mole.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:But, the same token, the goal is to try to get as much under control and or enhanced as we can, and then understand that things are going to happen. So, um, which isn't always a bad thing, I mean stressors are actually can be positives, um, if they are appropriate and in the right amount and dose, and that sort of thing too, because it, you know, it helps us to get things accomplished. That's right, it helps us to move forward. Even what are thought to be setbacks sometimes can be helpful, as challenges that kind of move you in a good direction. Um, I mean some of the best relationships, businesses, um, any of the things that mean anything. There's sometimes a little back and forth and a little bit of give and take, and I don't want to say dissension, but sometimes there can be which can work as a positive too. So, um, you know, I think all of those pieces are important, but, yeah, I mean, I think there's a multitude of things we can look at and do and there's every modality that you can think of could be a potential option.
Speaker 1:You know, if you listen to, you know some of the people on social medias, you know they talk about these things. It's like, well, how do they get anything else accomplished Because they're doing all these? You know tools and trinkets all the time but you know, I think they can have a role. But it's just a matter of kind of putting them in place in a comprehensive way that is feasible, understandable, and kind of giving folks the reason that these are moving forward. So and again, that may morph and shift. I mean there are some people initially that will come in and say, hey, I want to lose whatever 20 pounds. There may be times that they may come in and go. You know, I want to add some muscle mass and some growth, and that's a totally different interaction, intervention and treatment regimen moving forward, um, and it just depends. I mean I treat people that do high level, you know, professional activities and sports, have some people that just want to play with their grandkids and that's their goal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and none of those are wrong. No, it's all about what you want to do, and I think the difference between the the system of westernized medicine versus regenerative medicine or functional medicine is you ask what are your goals? I mean, I think that was one of the things that just it was profound. The first time I talked to you you said well, what are your goals? No doctor had ever asked me that before. In fact, I was fighting over what was a simple question with my primary care and you just were different is you were like okay, well, what do you want to achieve? What do you want to do? Right Almost didn't even have an answer.
Speaker 1:Um, understood, and you know that's it's a different mindset and way to look. But again, if you're looking at any type of relationship, or you know business proposition or you know any form of interaction, I mean, goals are kind of a big key in trying to figure out directions you want to go, and you know I can help you with making that pathway doable, feasible on your health journey. But it's just a matter of trying to figure out you know what, what you would like to do, and again, it's going to morph and change. So don't feel bad about that or don't feel like, oh my God, um, you know I'm not doing the things I should be doing for my age group or any of those sorts of things.
Speaker 1:Um, and you know we pick on, you know docs and medicine quite a bit and you know I've been in that system and it's attract me.
Speaker 1:It's a you're on a rat wheel, going, going, going going, primarily because you know folks need to be seen and or you know you don't have a significant amount of time where you're not paid appropriately to spend 30, 60, 90 minutes with somebody. It's just not feasible. Unfortunately, there are marching orders from people above them, whether they're in a large hospital system, whether they're in a large orthopedic or primary care organization, whether they're in any form or walk of life, where they don't necessarily control everything. So you know, our current health system is really good for acute things. So if you break your leg or you're in a car accident or have some head trauma amazing, I mean, there probably is very few other places I would say you would want to be Sure. They're not very good, unfortunately, with looking at more subacute, chronic type things and kind of keeping people healthy and working on their longevity and their health span and some of the things that are very important.
Speaker 2:Well, I look at Westernized medicine and again, you make a great point. We're not trying to beat up on doctors here, but it's really like the standard medical care, as good as it is, is really for. To go to our car analogy it's for car crashes, yeah, it's to fix a problem and get you back out, correct. And it is a business system, and that no different than any other business out there. Uh, there is somebody in charge and it is for profit, um, but in regenerative medicine, it's about maintenance, it's about performance, it's about doing what you know, figuring out what your goal is and you know, let's just say it's.
Speaker 2:If we go back to our car analogy, if we want to put that race, that car on the racetrack, well, we've got to do things differently than if it's just going to get us back and forth to work Correct, we've got to spend some money on maintenance. That's not covered by insurance, and I want to dispel this out there for anybody. If you think for a moment that all these things should be covered underneath your regular health care plan, your PPO, your HMO, your deductible plan through your employer, whatever that looks like, that's not how it works. We are trained to think that way with our car, in that we've got to do maintenance on it, we've got to put tires on it. If we wanted to do something different, we've got to spend some money on it.
Speaker 2:But for some reason, we have got this notion in our head that if our insurance isn't covering it, then we shouldn't be doing it in the health or medical field, and I'm going to encourage you to spend some money on optimizing your health so that your lifespan and your health span end up as close together as possible. You don't want to be one of these people that the last 10 or 12, 15 years of your life, you are immobile or you're relying on someone else in order to be able to get you to and from those types of things. And what if? How fortunate it is that we live in a time where regenerative medicine there's time and energy and research going into that space Absolutely, what's something that you're just super excited about that has happened recently or is kind of on the edge?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think you know combining therapies. So if we're looking, I'll kind of outline the things that I tend to employ. So prolotherapy I still do. I've done that for 15, 20 years. It's nice because it's readily available. I can draw it up out of a bottle and you know, anybody that comes in I can treat and it works well. I mean it's got great benefits both as a primary treatment and or as kind of an adjunctive treatment to kind of continue the healing response and the phase.
Speaker 2:And who would be a good candidate for that?
Speaker 1:Anybody really that's got any type of musculoskeletal nerve related uh, soft tissue related, uh, problem? I mean, I've done it pretty anywhere from you know, upper cervical spine to knee, to shoulder, to hip, um, and percentages of the concentration of the dextrose for prolotherapy solution do different things. Sure. So for nerves, epidurals, nerve blocks, nerve hydro dissections, think things like carpal tunnel. If you're thinking nerve compression, there's other areas where nerves can get compressed but you can inject the solution and kind of free up some of the tissues in around that nerve. That can be incredibly helpful, both both from a diagnostic standpoint but also from a therapeutic standpoint and avoid that surgery. Correct, and there are some good studies showing that both prolotherapy and PRP and we'll get into that in a second platelet-rich plasma have good data behind it showing it can be an alternative to avoid surgery for those type issues. So almost everybody that does regenerative medicine still does some form of prolotherapy, daily or weekly for sure. Next step up from that is what we just talked about. So PRP or platelet-rich plasma where we take out your own blood. Where we take out your own blood Typically, depending on what we're treating. If it's a very small joint we'll use about 60 mLs or 60 cc's. If it's a bigger joint think knee, think hip, think shoulder we'll take 120, sometimes even 180 mLs of blood, which sounds like a lot it kind of is. But the number of platelets is the biggest thing that you're trying to enhance or improve, and multiple studies have shown that not all PRP is the same. Sure and it's. You know you're looking to get anywhere from about eight to 10 billion platelets and inject it back in. And again, you can put that anywhere. You can put it in the joint, you can put it into a cartilage or meniscus, you can put it into a tendon or ligament, you can even inject it into the bone, believe it or not. So people that have a bone bruise or they have what's called an intraosseous lesion, where if you get an MRI the bone kind of shows up white. And there have been some really good studies performed in Europe, primarily in France, by Dr Hernigou, who was one of the pioneers of regenerative medicine and his classic study was really well done. So he had patients that had bilateral knee osteoarthritis. So he was an orthopedic surgeon by training, so he did a total knee on one knee and then the other one he injected. I think it was bone marrow, not PRP. We'll get into bone marrow in a second, into the bone. So basically, think a large bore needle, about 16, 18 gauge. You walk it into the joint or, excuse me, into the bone, so femur and or tibia necessary and then you inject that into the bone and they had, you know, long-term follow-up of about 10 to 15 years and the folks that had that procedure done, the numbers were pretty astounding. I think 80, 80 plus percent still had not had a joint replacement on that side. So this wasn't some short-term study, that was a year or two or those sort of things. This was a long-term follow-up and most of the folks were doing incredibly well. So, um, so I think the biggest thing is that combining therapies can be incredibly powerful as far as that goes. So you know, prp works incredibly well.
Speaker 1:Next step up is either bone marrow, with either bone marrow aspirate, where you just kind of pull out the bone marrow and then you can inject it, and then bone marrow concentrate, where you put it into, draw it out, put it in a centrifuge and concentrate it, and there's pros and cons to both. Sure, they both work. You know, for certain things smaller joints, that sort of thing sometimes concentrated can be very good, um, for bigger joints. Sometimes concentrating it will reduce the amount that you have available. Do so it's dependent on what you're treating. And then the other one that works incredibly well is adipose. So basically doing you know, a stem salt or a fat harvest, which is kind of a mini liposuction, and then concentrating the fat, and same thing. You can inject it anywhere. You can even use it for aesthetics and hair and sexual function. You can use all of these kind of similarly as well.
Speaker 2:Well, and and and that's what I had done, you know and I want to put this out there because somebody out there right now is thinking, oh well, this is for somebody else, this is not for me. A little bit about my story. Some people know this already, some don't. I was the fat kid from age three and my 40th birthday. I'm at 305 pounds and very successful in business and things, but from a health standpoint it was a train wreck and lost 85 pounds and you know. So basically the weight that I am today and. But I looked like a melted candle. I had very little muscle. I, you know, I did it through diet only and then was trying to figure out okay, well, how do I live better? And one of the things that was just crushing me was my knees. You weigh 305 pounds for the bulk of your adult life and you've just done damage.
Speaker 2:And we started having a conversation. Obviously, you were helping me optimize a lot of things in my panel and the knees just kept coming up, kept coming up because that was slowing me down in the gym. It was limiting my activity and, realistically, I was probably 18 months to two years out from needing double knee replacement and I wanted to keep my own parts Right and so we had a conversation and we started talking about our friends down at the Garm Clinic Dr Glenn, terry and Heather and I ended up going down there, yep, and to a lot of people that would be scary, like you know, and a lot of people thought I was crazy. Even my wife was like I can't believe you're going to Honduras to have your knees worked on. And you know, they harvested what was, you know, a, a syringe worth of fat from my stomach and then, um, mixed it with my own blood, so PRP, and then injected into my knees and, uh, that was in August of 23. And by March of 24, I had crossed a hundred days of no pain and I didn't get any replacement. Um, you know, I've got a. I had crossed 100 days of no pain Awesome and I didn't get knee replacement. I've got a great friend that he's now we've talked about him a little bit. He's now on his third knee replacement on one side I had two botched replacements and just had his third. Luckily it looks like everything's going well with his third.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying that knee replacement is wrong. For some people Correct, but for a lot of people. We could keep our own parts if we were just willing to spend some money on fixing them Correct. So you know somebody that's got knee problems. Knee problems are obviously it's a big deal Correct. How would somebody know whether they're a candidate for stem cell therapy or if? Hey, we're too far gone, we got to go, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's been a lot of data collected in multiple groups and you know the studies have shown that knees and shoulders are pretty forgiving. So they can be in the, you know, severe arthritis category or you know, looking at a certain radiologic criteria that we don't necessarily have to get into, but, um, they can still respond to any form of regenerative therapy and even prolotherapy. So I don't want you to think, oh my God, we're going to do stem cells on everybody. Sure, would I recommend that likely if you had significant issues. Reason I would is because it's it's a bigger bang for the buck and typically you may have to do only one or two procedures, whereas if we use something a little bit less strong, like prolotherapy or prp, we may need to do, you know, more than one or multiple. So the cost probably will be washed to some degree. But everybody's different and you know, I think again, the education piece is the important part. If somebody wants to start with something a little bit less potent, I think very reasonable and can kind of get them going. And you know there's there's good data even on those therapies for being particularly beneficial and helpful. Same for shoulders. Other joints like the hips tend to do really good when they are in the mild to moderate range. Severe hip issues don't tend to do particularly well with regenerative therapies. I mean, you wouldn't do it, no, but again, this is where the education piece would come in.
Speaker 1:And everybody thinks that the folks that do this are anti-surgery and we're not. There are appropriate candidates for surgical intervention and those are things that we definitely discuss. And if you opt for that, are you throwing in the towel or in that sort of thing? No, you're making an informed decision. I mean, it's the biggest key. There are opportunities and options out there and if you decide, hey, you know I want to do this and move it forward and you know that's the direction I want to go. That's not a problem. And there's certain other things when we chatted about yesterday. You know, full ACL tears typically need to be fixed. Um, you know, full rotator cuff tears typically need to be fixed.
Speaker 1:And by fixed we mean surgical surgery correct Either ACL, you know replacement, or you know surgery rising and trying to approximate the end of the rotator cuff tear. However, you know, most orthopedic surgeons don't tend to do these or augment their therapies with regenerative medicine. Some do and outcomes have actually been shown to be better. But even with that, just because you have surgery doesn't mean we can't do some things moving forward to further augment your recovery. So we chatted a little bit yesterday.
Speaker 1:You know ACL injuries typically involve multiple areas in your knee. Typically the medial collateral ligament or the inside ligament is oftentimes injured and then the medial meniscus is also injured and it's called the terrible triad. So even if that wasn't significant to the point where it needed to be fixed surgically, if it's still got some laxity and some other things you know post ACL and starting your recovery, and once your surgeon kind of signs off and says, yep, have at it, you're good to go, we could do some things to try to help enhance your medial collateral ligament and try to help improve that instability. Sometimes we can even do the same to the medial meniscus or any other structures that may be less than optimal as far as their stability goes. So even if you opt for surgery. It doesn't necessarily mean that's it. Move on. There are ways that we can enhance and augment those type interventions and procedures without an issue, for the most part, and it's not going to negatively affect your surgical outcome.
Speaker 2:Well, I think one of the other things that we've talked about several times and I think are very critical to anybody that's watching this podcast, is you want to do optimization before a surgery as well. Correct, In order to get your body into the best possible shape to get the best possible outcome from the surgery, Right? So somebody out there listening right now? They've got their knee replacement scheduled. What should they be doing? Who should how to? What would be the first steps in order to get headed in that direction?
Speaker 1:I think this is where we get into some of the weeds a little bit. Ideally, I would get them going in some type of therapy or what I call a prehabilitation program. Downside is depending on where you are from an insurance standpoint. If you have that, there are limited visits that you can use and Medicare is definitely going to limit the number of times, so, unfortunately, most of the time you need to save those for post-treatment.
Speaker 1:But this is where you could start some things, either from a out-of-pocket or cash pay standpoint too, so, or working with somebody that's well-versed, could be a personal trainer or something along those lines as well, to really try to see if we can enhance movement of other regions, see if there's ways that we can do some strengthening, see if there's ways that we can work on balance. You know proprioception was kind of knowing where your body position is in space and trying to get you move reasonably or moving reasonably well before you do it. I'm a big fan of doing. You know blood work and other facets of looking at your health. So blood work and other facets of looking at your health, even before I do regenerative procedures and similar to what you're talking about with a surgical procedure and looking at things to see what do your inflammatory markers look like? Are there things that we can get under better control which are going to allow you to heal and recover? What does your blood sugar, insulin levels and your hemoglobin A1C look like? Probably the most common inflammatory condition that we have is type 2 diabetes or some type of insulin resistance. So if we can help to clean that up, that's going to enhance basically every body system that we have.
Speaker 1:If there are some hormone deficiencies, trying to correct and or improve those again agencies trying to correct and or improve those again gives you those building blocks to try to heal and recover, um, and it could be anything. I mean testosterone for both sexes very important. We talked about dhea a little bit earlier. That's another one that's very important. I mean vitamin d levels, optimize all of those type pieces, um, even, you know, estradiol and progesterone and some of the other things are very important because they have a pretty pronounced, uh, bone health component. Benefit to them, so, and they can help to control inflammation. They can help your mental health to some degree as well. They can make you feel like you want to attack your rehab and some of the other things to help to enhance your sleep, which is definitely going to be affected. I mean, anesthesia can be, you know, taxing on the body for a long period of time too, unfortunately, correct, so it's multifaceted.
Speaker 1:So you know, if you, if you've got an injury that's got to be fixed, then obviously you know we can work on these things afterwards. There's not much we can do with that, but you know is. But you know, do you have to have the knee done within a couple days or a couple weeks? No, You've dealt with it for a while, so you know it doesn't have to be a long, drawn-out process. I mean six to 12 weeks is probably reasonable enough. Certain people it may take a little bit longer.
Speaker 1:But I think looking at all of those areas and facets of your health I think is very important because you know my goal is not just to treat you for your one time thing and say, hey, have a great day, talk to you soon.
Speaker 1:My goal is to have you on board, hopefully lifetime. That would be the ideal thing. Does that mean you have to see me every week or every other week or every month? No, I mean I want to give you the tools and the implements and all of the education such that you can do a lot of these things on your own and then we, you know, continue to test, just to try to see if we're in a good space, if anything new has happened, anything different's, come up and just try to keep you, you know, in the direction you are hoping for for your health journey and you know your optimal outcomes and longevity and all the other things that we all would like to have. And I think it's the biggest piece is just being proactive instead of reactive. So figure out hey, we have a problem, let's try to fix it before. It's not a big problem.
Speaker 1:Similar to what you talked about with the car maintenance and some of the other things. It's like okay, we change the oil we rotate the tires, we wash it, we change the air filters. We do all the things to try to reduce the potential problems that may arise. I mean, the downside is a lot of us take better care of our pets and our cars than we do of ourselves.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, and for a little bit different analogy, you're going to pay for it one way or the other, correct. And you're either going to pay for it in pain or you're going to pay for it out of your wallet and maybe some time, and you know, kind of like if somebody that's watching pays attention to Dave Ramsey or knows how compound interest works. Your body is very similar in that you can. You can fix some small things early that make a big difference later in life, correct. And the reality is, I don't care what age you are, you are never going to be any younger than you are today, right now. So start today, and it could be as simple as going for a walk or turning the TV off and going to sleep at an appropriate time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, it doesn't have to cost a lot.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's many things that are, quote unquote, free. I mean going out for a walk and get some sunlight, relatively free, reading a book, taking a hot bath. I mean you pay for the walk, okay, fine, but you know it, it, it, it. It doesn't have to cost millions of dollars, it doesn't. You know? Do we all have to be like Brian Johnson and don't die? No, but if he has the means, am I going to criticize him? Absolutely not. But we don't necessarily have to emulate that.
Speaker 1:But by the same token, I mean I think there are relatively simple things that almost all of us can do that can make a pretty profound impact in health and, you know, make a dent in kind of this health care mess that we are in. And that can be as simple as okay, optimizing your relationships or, you know, maybe enhancing your mental health and, and you know, reducing your stress load or helping somebody else. Do that. I mean it's it's not necessarily all the tools and trinkets or peptides or any of the other things. It's, a lot of times it's lifestyle and activity level and and some of the other pieces from that standpoint too.
Speaker 2:Well, I, I, I look at it like the going back to our car analogy. It it can be whatever it needs to be for you.
Speaker 1:So if your budget is zero.
Speaker 2:It can be taking a walk and optimizing sleep and those types of things. Or, if you've got the resources, you can spend a couple of hundred bucks a month on a few supplements. And you know some, some blood work and testing. Um, you know, a lot of these things are not. They're not free, but they're not. You know thousands of dollars, correct. Uh, even you know I think of hormone optimization. You know a of dollars, correct, even you know I think of hormone optimization. You know a lot of people think, oh well, hormone optimization, I don't have the money for that. I mean, the reality is, if you do it the right way, it's pretty inexpensive, correct, it's not cost prohibitive. And then, as you go up the ladder and you know, the next thing that's on my list is I want a hyperbaric chamber for my house. Well, I mean, you're talking about a 10 to $15,000 investment, correct? So that's why I don't have it currently, but I do have plenty of things in place leading up to that.
Speaker 2:And there's a reason that it's it's the next thing is it's it's the next thing in the list of things that I'm going to do, right.
Speaker 1:I think you said it well. I mean, just think about getting from point A to point B. I mean, if you have a Kia or you have a Maserati, they both get you there. That's right Depends on what you want to spend to get from point A to point B.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And again, it doesn't have to be cost prohibitive to make those type of things happen. It's just making some small changes and getting those small dopamine hits and starting to see some benefits and, and you know, improvements. And it becomes a habit and you know habits are good and bad. Good ones are hard, as hard to break as as bad ones. So if you're doing the right things initially, I think those are the bigger keys and you know, similar to your financial analogy I'll kind of use it and talk about things as kind of like a 401k. I mean, if you started in your teens or twenties, you've got a good chance to have a very long and healthy life. If you started in your fifties, great, do it. I'm not downplaying that because it's not a bad thing, because we can definitely make some pretty significant inroads, the things for sure. But you know, sometimes the damage is done to the point where it's going to be a particular challenge to make it reverse. But again, any, any time is a good time to do it. It's like anybody says what's?
Speaker 1:the best time to exercise? When you can do it, I don't care. Yeah, 5 am great, 10 at night great. Whenever you can make the time and make the effort, it's going. There's ways to look at that, but I think we get lost in sometimes in the weeds and and some of the minutia, instead of just looking at things that are are going to be of benefit to us and for us and, just you know, moving it forward and implementing.
Speaker 2:So Well, you've got so many people that are putting things off in their life until it's perfect and it's never going to be perfect. Just take action today, even if it's perfect and it's never going to be perfect.
Speaker 1:Just take action today, even if it's just the walk. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, if it was a perfect time to have kids, none of us would have kids, that's right. I mean, it just wouldn't happen. What's the best time to take the trip to Europe? How about now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean, we don't know, tomorrow is not guaranteed. Um, hopefully we'll all be here, um, but I mean, things shift and change incredibly quickly, unfortunately, or fortunately, however you want to look at that. And, um, you know, don't don't live with regrets, um, and you know I've had my, my challenges as much as anybody else. So, um, I, you know, have had some difficulties and things, and you know I get in my pity party a little bit, but I tend to try to move that forward as best I can. And you know, going back to regenerative therapies, I mean, I'm definitely had multiple things done on myself and, um, I'm a believer and a fan and I definitely think it has a pretty profound role in, you know know, orthopedic and musculoskeletal health.
Speaker 1:Is it a perfect, you know, panacea? No, are there going to be people that are going to fail? Unfortunately, nothing's 100, nothing's zero percent. That's right. There's no absolutes either way. But if I was going to look at things, I would definitely explore these options before I would start looking at cutting, unless there was something that really needed to be fixed or a significant trauma or a tumor or something that really needed to be excised and treated from that standpoint. But I think it's an exciting time as far as that goes. It's also confusing. It's like anything. I mean, you look at nutrition science. It's an exciting time as far as that goes. It's also confusing. It's like anything. I mean, you look at nutrition science, it's all confusing. Eggs are good Eggs are bad Coffee's good Coffee's. You know, it's all over the map as far as that goes.
Speaker 2:Well, you have to take an active role in what's right for you, because there's no such thing as the right plan. Right Because every one of us is different, our stresses are different, our experience is different, our genetics are different. For sure, all of these things have to be taken into consideration, and so you know, really, you got to figure out what dials in for you.
Speaker 1:Um you know, I tried.
Speaker 2:I mean it would be ridiculous for me to try to figure out how many diets I had tried before age 40 that didn't work. And then, at 40, I got serious enough about it that I lost 85 pounds. And somebody out there right now is listening and they're thinking well, um, I only want to do what works. Well, I'm sorry, that's not how this works. Um, Brian Johnson yeah, I encourage anybody Like.
Speaker 2:If you don't know who Brian Johnson is, it's B-R-Y-A-N Johnson, Look him up. He's got it's called the Blueprint. The dude is doing some fantastic stuff. Now some people are going to say he's weird and he's doing you know what. In order to move the needle, you got to be a little bit weird, Correct. All order to move the needle, you gotta be a little bit weird, Correct, All right, but he's got the resources to do it. I'm not mad at him.
Speaker 2:Uh, in fact, um, you know, if we back up just a little bit, so he went to the Garm clinic as well and we were supposed to be there the same day. We were supposed to be there on August 22nd, which is actually his birthday, and uh, I had told them about three months before that. I said you guys should reach out to Brian Johnson. Y'all should be working together. Then fast forward. Heather called one day and just said Brian Johnson's team just called Great, and then it lined up. We were supposed to be there the same day and then they ended up having to postpone. But I got to thinking about it and don't get me wrong, Dr Terry's got a CV. That's just fantastic.
Speaker 2:He was the head physician for the Barcelona Olympics, head physician for Atlanta Olympics. But I'm still even as informed and as part of regenerative medicine, as I have been. You still have that thing in the back of your head going all right, I'm really going to Honduras to get stem cells, and so you have some doubt. Sure, and then I got to thinking about it. I'm like okay, so one of two things is happening here Either Brian Johnson made a terrible decision or I made a great decision. Right, because if he's got, you know, nearly a billion dollars to play with and he's going to the Garm Clinic for his therapy and I'm I don't have anywhere near that much money and I'm going to the Garm Clinic, then you know one of those things is true.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean it's. It's mindset too. I mean, if you look at some of the cancer literature, I mean the two things that are most important for outcomes mindset and support wasn't all the chemotherapy, it wasn't radiation, it wasn't this, it wasn't that, it wasn't ivermectin, it wasn't you know, sweat lot. I mean all of those things can be helpful. I'm not suggesting either way, but it you know what was your attitude and what was your support around you. Yeah, which is pretty amazing if you think about it so Absolutely Like anything, I mean if the direction you go, be committed.
Speaker 1:I mean if you say, hey, surgery I think is the best choice for me, good, I love it. You've made an informed decision, that's right. You've looked at all the possibilities. If you decide you want to do regenerative therapies, understand there there may be, you know, potential side effects and issues and you may not respond. But same with surgery too. I mean, it's like anything gambling, investing relationships. Are there any guarantees with any of those sort of things?
Speaker 2:no, you could lose money, sorry, yeah, you know it happens well and too, you know, I think even with my experience at day 60, if you'd have called me on day 60, which we talked several times in that period if you'd have called me on day 60, I would have said I wasted my money. And to put it into perspective for people, uh, including the trip, I spent somewhere around fifteen $15,000 to have my knees treated with stem cells my own stem cells and then I also got IV stem cells and it fixed things that I didn't even know were broken and they told me that, but I had no expectation of what that was going to be. But some things really dramatically started to improve over the first 30 or so days. But at day 60, my knees still hurt more than they hurt before and I did a round of BPC 157 and TB 500. And I don't know if that was the catalyst to what launched the improvement or if it was just.
Speaker 2:That's when I finally got over the trauma of having the stem cell done and got to the benefits. But by day 75, I started having days with no pain and by March I had 100 days of no pain, which that wasn't true for the previous five years. I woke up every morning and took two steps to the vibration plate just to be able to, you know, walk to the car to take my son to school, right, um. So, again, you've got to take ownership of it. There are no guarantees.
Speaker 1:no, you're going to spend some money, um and time is is necessary, um, I would say ballparking. I've had adipose, I've had PRP and other things completed and done and I would say two to six months is reasonable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And everybody wants stuff fixed yesterday. I totally understand that. But it takes some time for the healing process, the inflammatory cascade, some of the tissues that come in, stimulating your own stem cells, recovery. Sometimes re-stimulating with either, you know, prolotherapy or PRP can be helpful. I mean there's, there's multiple ways we can kind of keep the healing cascade going.
Speaker 1:But by the same token and you know most orthopedic surgeons do not tell you this If you have a rotator cuff repair, you're, you're going to be down about six to 12 months. I mean they're going to give you the rosy picture and that sort of thing, but you're going to be in the sling for about six weeks. You're going to be in and out of the sling. After that Rehab's not going to be fun, I promise you that. Um, and you know, outcomes typically are good. I'm not saying they're not cause they typically are, but it's, it's a lot of work, whereas with these things I mean we may sling you for a day or two just for comfort, help you sleep. That sort of thing you know the first 24, 36 hours sucks, so I will say that. And then it's been with me too. Your sleep's terrible. You're cussing like why did I do this? Why did doc talk me into this, that sort of thing. But after that usually pretty well tolerated, you're up moving pretty quickly, doing most of your normal daily activities and you know that that is part of the rehab process. Just kind of getting some movement, getting some blood flow, getting some oxygenation and then getting going with some form of PT or rehab within 7 to 14 days and again similar to what we talked about with the person that's going to get a joint replacement.
Speaker 1:I usually try to get those folks going a little bit of a prehab program for a couple reasons. One I want the therapist or who's working with them to kind of see what they look like before. One I want the therapist or who's working with them to kind of see what they look like before and then start doing some things to work on some of their deficiencies and kind of get in their head what they're in for. And then after the procedure, they have a better handle on the idea about okay, this was pre, this was not in relation to the procedure itself. Or yeah, maybe it was a little bit different itself. Or yeah, maybe it was a little bit different. And then I get feedback from them to say, oh, you may need to see John here. Something's going on or he's not progressing as well as he could be or should be, and you know we, we can kind of allay any fears or if there's you know potential issue or side effect or problem, then we can go ahead and address it right away. So, um, but the therapists typically are quite helpful as kind of being your touch point or multiple touch points and really helping folks and sometimes talking them off the ledge and you know, being many psychiatrists and some of the other things too, which is incredibly important to keep folks motivated and kind of keeping things moving forward. And, um, you know, I, uh, you know, I would say the outcomes typically are quite positive.
Speaker 1:And then the other criticism that you oftentimes get is oh, there's no research. Well, that is absolutely false. If you do a Google Scholar search or a PubMed search, there are plenty of papers and articles discussing any of the things that we chat about, be it from prolotherapy, prp, bone marrow adipose, any of the other things from that standpoint or combination therapies too, and you know, reading each of them is important getting an idea if they used appropriate doses. Like we talked about before, not all PRP is PRP and there are some very good sources and some of my colleagues that you know put together some of the literature each year showing that it's reasonably robust. Could it be better? Absolutely? Um, but some of the orthopedic literature is not that good for some of the procedures that are already being done, unfortunately. So just because it's got a CPT code and covered doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing per se. So, but yeah, I mean, more and more studies are coming out looking at it, versus steroid injections, versus hyaluronic acid or, you know, the gel injections, which can have a role too, versus some orthopedic procedures and even some orthopedic procedures augmented with regenerative therapies, as compared to just regular orthopedic surgery. So, you know, I would say the vast majority of well-done studies are showing a positive response. Now, everyone no, but again, we talked about that before. But, um, you know, again, I think it's an exciting time because it increases our toolbox and increases our momentarium and some of the other things we can do.
Speaker 1:I do a lot of spine work and it's definitely made a pretty significant impact in the things that we can do from that standpoint. I do a fair number of intradiscal therapies and those can be things similar to what we already talked about. Prp has been shown to be helpful. Bone marrow has been shown to be helpful. Bone marrow has been shown to be helpful. There is an FDA approved product that I've used, called via disc, which comes from cadavers. It's the nucleus pulposus inside part of the desk and it's dehydrated and cleaned and all those good things and you mix it with a saline and then you can inject it in.
Speaker 1:It works almost kind of like a caulk or kind of you know stabilizer and kind of filling the nooks and crannies. There is another procedure called disc seal, which kind of the same thing, where you inject it into the annulus of the outer part. Same thing. Think of caulk, or think of silly putty trying to fill in some of those holes.
Speaker 2:So that was the one that was. Is it Tyler?
Speaker 1:Texas, where that was Dr Kevin Pazza. Yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic work, yeah. And then the other part that's fun for me is nobody tells me what I can and can inject. So you know, if you're doing it through insurance, it's like okay, you can do one thing, okay, but they've got multiple problems or that may not be the right thing, correct?
Speaker 1:So, you know, can that be done diagnostically to try to help you, and I figure out where the problem may be? Sure, but the nice part is I can hit pretty much anything that I want to hit to help improve stability and or integrity of some of the tissues, um, while still giving you relief and benefit. And we don't have anybody in our way saying, okay, you can't do that or you can't do this, and that's. You know, everybody's like well, why isn't this covered by insurance? And there's multitudes of reasons and everybody wants it to be, and I get that part. But, by the same token, once that starts happening, it's going to be bastardized to the point where we're going to have to jump through 55 hoops and then they're going to tell us what we can and can't use and or what we can and can't inject.
Speaker 2:So it takes going back to you taking ownership. I mean, if we think about our, our, I think our healthcare system and then I would say, worse than that is Canadian healthcare system. And then on the opposite end would be cash pay. So cash pay is like maintenance and optimization, and then it's almost like triage. Is is kind of where most of Western medicine lies here in the United States, right, and then there's we're beyond triage and there it's been wrong for a while, but we didn't get you in for six months or five years, because that's how long the line was Right. And so it really just depends on what do you? How do you want to treat your body? Do you want to treat it Well? Do you want to treat it with a reactionary response and that, oh, it broke? So now we've got to fix it Right and it's never going to be back as good as it could have been? Or do you want to?
Speaker 1:you know, go socialize medicine where you know it's whoever's about to die gets, gets treated, just to keep them alive right, right, yeah, I mean it's again goes into the decision making and directions you want to go and how proactive you wish to be. And again I mean, are there certain things that insurance can do? Well, yeah, I mean, you know, covering colonoscopies and some of the other things are very reasonable. Or you know, looking at breast assessments and some of the other pieces too, and we can get into the weeds, whether you know mammography is good, bad or indifferent. But you know, trying to be proactive for certain things I think can have a role, um, but I think it's almost up to you to try to help manipulate the system to your benefit. I know that sounds um kind of sinister and some of the things from that standpoint, but you know nobody's going to be more interested in your health than you, correct?
Speaker 1:And, um, you know it takes me back to, you know, when Warren Buffett, within the last few years, was talking about his taxes versus his secretary's taxes and he paid less than she did Wasn't necessarily anything anybody did right or wrong.
Speaker 1:It's just a matter of he used the system to his benefit. That's right. Again, I mean, you can, you can look at it and go, that's terrible. But, by the same token, if it's available to use, then use it or do the things that are going to be in your best interest to either keep your money or be healthy, or grow your business or whatever it may be. Um, so, similar type thought process as far as that goes, and you know, be that good, bad or indifferent, but I think it's again advocating for yourself, your family members or, you know, if you've got employees, you know that I think there's ways to work with folks, whether it be from a direct primary care standpoint or even partnering with certain clinics, where I think you can get good bang for your buck, probably reduce your costs, being proactive and, you know, show your employees that, hey, I'm really bought into making you guys the best that you can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with a wellness plan or something like that, and the good news is that's growing. You know, those there's more interest in in on the employer side. Today, more than a part of that is driven by the increasing um uh, responsive healthcare costs and anything you can do on the front end of that to push that out or to to avoid, you know people having problems is good from a which. How much your renewal is going to cost? Correct, what would you say is something in this gets slightly controversial, but we have this segment in most of our podcasts. It's called things we think, but do not say and not trying to get anybody canceled here or anything but what do you think is a myth or a problem out there that you know people just need the truth on.
Speaker 1:I think I think one of the bigger issues is just advocating for yourself. So, for example, um, getting medications approved, I think, is a big racket. You know there's multiple reasons and ways that that's just out of control and you know they're even generic medication wise. They're asking for pre-certifications and a bunch of other things, basically so they don't have to pay for it and don't have to cover certain things. Again, I think the first thing is just say okay, if it's not covered, what's the cash price?
Speaker 1:I mean you may be surprised at how reasonable or how low it is, and sometimes it's cheaper than going through your insurance.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Same thing with imaging. I mean again, you know, with where I am in Florida, um, multiple sites doing cash, pay MRI which includes everything, your scan, your reports and all the pieces, and depending on where you go, I've heard prices as low as about two, 20 and probably as high as 300, 325 somewhere in that ballpark, for a full body or for a specific, a joint or an area. So cervical spine, lumbar spine, knee, hip, shoulder. Typically if you do more than one, they'll give you a little price break with doing two. But and again I understand people, hey, I want to use my insurance. Well, okay, true, I get it. Downside is I mean you've got a huge deductible, you may be paying a couple grand.
Speaker 1:Yeah easily, yeah and great, I mean, if that's what you want to do. But you know, I think there are opportunities and ways to kind of work around that as far as that goes. So, and then there's not just one way to do certain things, and I think it's important.
Speaker 1:I don't care who you go to, even if you trust them with your life. I think it's still a great idea to get a second opinion or look at alternatives and thoughts as far as that goes, or even question who you're working with too. You know, I've never shied away from questions, and if I don't know the answer, I will say I don't know, which is why, again, I try to have a collaborative group of people that are smarter than me that I can ask questions to or potentially even send for second opinions and some of the other things too.
Speaker 2:I almost believe that if a doctor doesn't occasionally say I don't know, or I'll, I'll research that and get back to you, or I'll, I'll consult with a colleague. If you don't stump them every once in a while with that, I don't know that I trust them, because nobody knows everything.
Speaker 1:No, no, and even with you know, google and chat, gbt and all the other things I mean can be helpful, but, um, I think it's important to be able to lean on other people and and have that network that you can. You can help both yourself and or, you know, help you learn something new, which happens probably daily for me at least weekly. For sure Someone will bring up something, or they're using something, or they have questions about something. I'm like, hmm, you need to do a little bit more research on that, or tap into somebody else to try to get some ideas and thoughts.
Speaker 2:Well, I love that about the way you look at medicine, because, I mean, I would say, more often than not, we talk just about after every or before every conference you're going to, and you're excited about the reason that you're going to that conference because you're going to be talking about this, or they've got a study that's showing how this is helping, or microdosing that is helping, or you know, um, you know, you're constantly learning. And I think, if you're going to be in a regenerative space, you have to.
Speaker 1:You do, because it's going to shift and morph and change very quickly. But also important to understand, you can't do everything either. You know, do what you feel comfortable doing. If you want to add a new skill or service, I think great. I mean definitely helps with your longevity and kind of retraining your brain and doing certain things from that standpoint too.
Speaker 1:But by the same token, you don't necessarily have to add 85 services. I don't think that's necessary. But again, if you have collaborative partners that may have some of the things that you're looking for, it's a great way to build business, build relationships, and they can send you folks to do what you do best too. So don't always look at that as competition or oh my God, they're never going to come back. Um, if they don't, okay, I mean you've done the best that you could with what you had available and you're trying to do the best for that client. But by the same token, I think most folks are going to be like, oh well, that was, that was great, he got me to the right location, the right position, and you know I'm improving, flourishing, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:You know, worked with some really great people. Um, Dr Charles Runnels is one of my favorites. He's funny, uh, but he's the person that came up with all the vampire procedures and the O-shot and the P-shot. So vampire procedures, aesthetics, o-shot, p-shot for sexual health, and he does incredible talks in relation to marketing and sales and that sort of thing. But he's a Southern guy. So he's like have you all seen signs that say I do taxes and fix lawnmowers in the South? And they're there. There still are.
Speaker 1:And he's like how do those things go together? They don't, he's like but if they trust you to do one thing, they will trust you to do multiple things, and that's even if you're suggesting they go see somebody else, and that sort of thing too. So, whatever it may be, try to do the best that you can for that person and that will build that relationship and build that trust and some of the other things as well. So I think those are all great take home points and you don't have to know it all, it's not necessary.
Speaker 1:I mean, think of you know all the attorneys that have different areas that they focus on. There's even accountants that you know the attorneys that have different areas that they focus on. There's even accountants that you know. Some are great for business, some are great for personal taxes, some are great for corporate. I mean forensic accounting, I mean all the other pieces from that standpoint. I mean even, you know, looking at any facet of anything, whether it be military service or any of the other things. Some are great for this, some are not so good for this, but we tend to work as a team to try to make it all cohesive and and work the best that we can, for sure as well.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, regardless of what discipline we're talking about, you can outgrow your provider, meaning it could be a, it could be a coach, it could be a doctor. Um, if you, if you, in fact, if you are in Western medicine and you have, uh, your primary care right now and you don't just tiptoe, you start really leaning into regenerative medicine, you're going to outgrow their bit of knowledge in about 30 minutes, um, and it's okay, like you've got to be your advocate and and push further into that.
Speaker 2:Um and and really that's, that's kind of how your career has gone. You were, you were fully in your lane in orthopedics and then you started tiptoeing into regenerative and now you're full on in regenerative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, I think the same thing too. I mean you as a patient or client may stimulate that doctor to go, huh, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe I want to look at this and maybe at least understand why people are looking at this, and maybe I don't go full in on in it. But yeah, you know I may refer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or I may do it myself. There's plenty of docs that do it themselves and don't advocate for it, which is weird, but it does happen.
Speaker 2:It does so my primary care for years. You know he treated me when I was 305 pounds and then I come back and you know, a year later I've dropped 85 pounds. And the longest conversation you know over over, you know maybe 10 minutes that we ever had was when I came in and I dropped 85 pounds and he pulled up a chair and he's like how did you do this Right? And I said primarily, you know, changed my diet and started doing 72 hour fasts and he goes Ooh, I love fasting. We had a, you know, a 45 minute conversation but he'd never told me that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, I mean I think you can stimulate the person that you are seeing too, which can be good. I mean, challenge them a little bit and, if you know, they push back the whole way.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe maybe it's time to move to somebody else. But they're like okay, tell me more. Yeah, tell me a little bit. Or who are you seeing? Maybe that person calls you, or maybe they come see you for something they have, or maybe they go to a few courses and go Hmm, yeah, I need something different. I'm burnt out, I'm done with what I'm doing right here. I just don't feel like I'm impacting anybody in a positive manner. They maybe see a little bit different way that they could do certain things, and you know it's it can kind of be a win-win all the way around too.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean I think it's with any relationship. I mean there are certain ones that just aren't fulfilling and unfortunately, or fortunately, if you want to look at it, moving on from those is going to serve you well, and vice versa. I mean, you know, not every client that comes to see me is for me either. I may tell you, hmm, I don't think we're aligned particularly well. You may want to see somebody else. That's right If they decide nope, nope, I like what you say. I want to try to do this. Okay, I'll give you a chance. Um, but you know, looking at some of the things I put into my book. Um, that was, you know, one of the do's and don'ts is it's not always you choosing me, it's sometimes me choosing you as well.
Speaker 2:That's right. It needs to be win-win on both sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's plenty of people that you interact with that you're like no.
Speaker 2:That's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if it's not going to be positive for both of you, then it doesn't necessarily mean that there's no adversity or there's no challenge to it adversity or there's no challenge to it, but it should be, you know, positive as far as trying to push you in a good direction and whether that conflict moves you both in the direction that you're hoping to do. So it doesn't always have to be like positive all the way around and mutual admiration to society and all the things. From that standpoint, right.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the other thing too is people need to listen to their gut. So I think back. This was long before we got into regenerative medicine, long before you and I met um. You know my wife had had the same um female doctor for years and you know we get pregnant and we're excited and we go to the very first meeting and it was not pleasant it was. It was rough. My we left there. My wife is in tears and um, you know she's like. I've been with this doctor for 12 years. I don't know why it's going this way. I said, honey, we're changing doctors and it turned out to be the best thing that we ever did. Um, dr Kaiser saved her life and my son's life. Uh, and I don't know that that would have happened, uh, with the other doctor, but my wife was it, even though she'd been her doctor for years. It just didn't feel right and so we changed Um and we're going to go uh in our next episode. We're going to go neck deep into the work you're doing uh there in the uh center center and uh center center and the foundation and those types of things.
Speaker 2:Um, kind of as a not a teaser, but kind of the tail off of the regenerative side, of just people dipping their toe in the water. Um, I'd like to go through a couple and just get your thoughts on them, because there's a lot of confusion out there. And my advice to people or not advice my suggestion would be that people be open-minded and think of peptides and think of regenerative medicines as options or tools in your tool belt. That you could improve your station in life with. Glp-1 is a hot topic right now. I don't think that people understand the differences between something like semaglutide and something like trisepatide, or even a peptide like MOTC. What would you say to somebody that doesn't know the difference? Right, so these are technically peptide therapies. Uh, motc, what? What would you? What would you say to somebody that doesn't know?
Speaker 1:the difference Right. So these are technically peptide therapies too. So, um, more and more data keeps coming out, for the most part showing positive responses. So these initially were put forth by the pharmaceutical industry for treatment of mental or not mental health, but dementia primarily because you know dementia and or Alzheimer's just thought to be you know, a form of diabetes and described as type three diabetes mellitus. They saw that it was significantly helping people with blood sugar and insulin control, helping with weight loss, and that's an easier road to go for them to get that approved. You know the cynical side of me is, once their patent runs out, they're going to run and get that for dementia too. So which is fine. I mean, I think it's definitely got a role and probably better than some of the things that are on on the board from the pharmaceutical standpoint for that condition. But papers keep coming out so it's actually got a very good indication for sleep apnea, probably more in relation to weight loss issues, but also has a central effect in the brain. There were a few papers recently coming out.
Speaker 1:It has benefits in relation to joint pain and osteoarthritis. In the past osteoarthritis you know, in the past osteoarthritis was described as non-inflammatory. That's absolutely false. That is an inflammatory type condition and you know, definitely these medications can be part of the treatment. I'm not going to say that it's going to fix all joint related issues, but definitely can have a role. You know beneficial for cardiovascular issues, CHF, kidney issues, kidney dysfunction, liver dysfunction and autoimmune related issues. Specifically has been shown to be very helpful for a multitude of folks. So some of my patients that have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is more of a, you know, a bit of an inflammatory autoimmune attack on the thyroid, the GLP ones can be particularly helpful in as part of a treatment plan along with optimizing thyroid and some other things with helping with that condition. You know could be things like Crohn's, rheumatoid, um, lupus, other things from that. And it doesn't necessarily have to be high dose, it's typically low dose. Sometimes you can do it every 10 to 14 days instead of every seven days, depending on how they do and how they respond.
Speaker 1:So if you're looking at them basically I look at it as kind of 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. So 1.0 is the semaglutide Works very well. Downside is it can have a reasonably high side effect profile. About 20% give or take of people that take it have issues either with nausea, occasional vomiting, gi side effects. Some people feel like they've got a little bit of a flu-like illness. It just doesn't make them feel good. However, if they tolerate it, it works incredibly well.
Speaker 1:Terzepatide is kind of 2.0, where it's affecting two different hormones, the GLP-1 and then GIP. And then there is a newish one that is coming to the market, or some compounding pharmacy are actually making it called reddit to tried, which is kind of 3.0, which is affecting three different hormones. So, um, and they're refining things and making it better, more tolerable and hopefully with much fewer side effects, which is kind of being more out. So I think they have a role in multiple health-related conditions. The part I don't like, and or with some of the clinics just having that as hey, you call in and then you get a GLP-1. And you really don't look at all the other pieces, meaning other parts of their laboratory assessment. You're not looking at dexabody composition scan, You're not looking at nutrition or diet, you're not looking at exercise, you're not looking at sleep, you're not looking at some of the other pieces that can be very important and you're only addressing that.
Speaker 1:A lot of people think that if they just do that, then you know cookies and pizza and burgers and fries are still great. Unfortunately, it's a combination or multitude of interventions that are necessary. So my opinion, if you're going to do it right, then you need to look at all the pieces. As far as that goes, the downside to them is it can decrease appetite to the point where you're not taking in enough calories or enough proteins and some of the other things. It can negatively affect muscle mass. It can negatively affect bone health. Health can negatively affect if you're not on anything for thyroid. It can kind of turn the wick down on your thyroid and or on your metabolism. So you know it can have negative effects to some degree on your weight loss or you might plateau or kind of go back the other way. So you know, looking at nutrition and assessing your macronutrient needs is still very important. We talked a little bit yesterday about how most people under eat as opposed to overeat. So you know, again, I mean I think it's kind of a multitude of ways and again, this is where Dexa, body composition scanning, comes in, in my opinion, is we can get a baseline, see where your muscle mass, your bone health, your fat mass, some of the other things, are, and then see again if we're moving the needle in the right direction or, hey, we're losing a lot of muscle, or who our bones are going their own direction here. We've got to make some adjustments and changes here to keep you from having other issues, side effects, problems, that sort of thing. But I would say, for the most part I think they're a very positive.
Speaker 1:Peptide or drug or set of drugs that have come on that I think are affecting the body systems multiple ways and for the most part positively. Again, everything can have side effects, everything can have issues. Not saying it's perfect for everybody, but if done properly I think it's been, you know, pretty dramatic improvement, because before that we really didn't have anything for weight loss per se other than stimulants and you know those can have some pretty profound side effects. Um, some of the medications in the past caused some heart related issues the fen-phen and some of the other things that were pulled off of the medications in the past caused some heart-related issues the fen-phen and some of the other things that were pulled off of the market. So I would say overall positive outlook on these, just with the caveats that it's got to be more of a comprehensive program as opposed to here's your injectable. Have a good day.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's part of your optimization strategy that you need to consult with your doctor, your functional medicine or your regenerative medicine doctor, and it's not a one-time. This is the path we're going to go on and we're on it for the rest of our life. It is how do we come up with a plan that needs to be ever-changing, based on the blood tests and checkups that you're doing along the way Correct, the blood tests and checkups that you're doing along the way Correct. Well, I'm excited about diving into episode two, where we're going to get into really the work that you're doing with the foundation and with our special operators and the multiple branches of the military, helping them and first responders kind of get their quality of life back and really solving some big problems, and it's just exciting and noble work that you guys are doing down there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's as I've said before, uh, for people that have asked, I've gotten more out of it than I've given, no question. Um, it's just amazing listening to people and listening to their stories, and it's interesting too, because a lot of the things that you hear I've either dealt with or other people have dealt with. It's just the mechanism that created the stress, and some of the other things is a little bit different, but it helps me to learn a little bit about myself and ways to work on my mind, body connection and some of the other things too.
Speaker 2:Well, we all, I mean it's. It's one of those things that, even though you're in this space, it is constant. You've got to be constantly evolving, taking a look at your health and you being exposed to them and helping them actually is helping you with, with what you're doing for yourself. So, uh, again, I'm super excited about this, this four part series that we're putting together and, uh, you know, I hope I hope our guests are too. So, team, uh, super excited about having Dr Mike Meehan on for four episodes, and so be looking for episode two, where we really dive into the work that they're doing with the foundation and the special operators that have so nobly served our country and the just fantastic work that they're doing down there. Again, coming to you from HitLab Studios here in Nashville, tennessee, pay attention, be looking for part two coming up soon.
Speaker 2:Take care, team, is Jim Cripps here with the Charge Forward podcast? I just want to tell you I love you, I appreciate you listening, I appreciate you for subscribing and sharing the Charge Forward podcast with people you know and you love, because that's what we're here for. We are here to share the amazing stories, the things that people have been through, the ways that they were able to improve their life, so that you can take little nuggets from theirs and help improve your story and be better tomorrow than you were today. I hope that this is the tool you needed at the right time and that you find value in the amazing guests that we bring each and every week. Thanks so much and don't forget new episodes drop every Thursday.