Charge Forward Podcast
The Charge Forward Podcast: Dedicated to those who choose to Charge Forward into the Storm when hit with challenges. This is what makes them different and has lead to their success. When in doubt.... Charge Forward!
Charge Forward Podcast
Sense, Scale & Strategy: How Elite Companies Use AI, Data & Human Connection – with Nick Hiter
🎙️ Sense, Scale & Strategy: How Elite Companies Use AI, Data & Human Connection – with Nick Hiter
What happens when you combine world-class data strategies, AI innovation, and real human connection? You get the blueprint for sustainable business growth—and this episode lays it all out.
Join Nick Hiter (serial entrepreneur, SiriusXM radio voice, and brand builder) as he teams up with Jim Cripps and Clayton Geiser of Sense Development to unpack the real strategies elite companies are using to scale smarter—not louder.
In this episode, we explore: ✅ Why most companies are stuck on a hamster wheel of leads they never fully utilize
✅ How to turn data into long-term relationships—not one-and-done transactions
✅ The right way to pair AI with data to explode efficiency and impact
✅ Why data without strategy is noise, but data with “Sense” drives results
✅ Timeless principles that ensure your marketing builds trust, not just traffic
Nick shares candid insights from years of working with top-tier brands and businesses, alongside Jim and Clayton’s practical tools for lead conversion, follow-up systems, and maximizing ROI from day one.
Whether you're leading a sales team, launching a startup, or trying to get off the lead hamster wheel—this episode delivers what most growth strategies miss: clarity, connection, and consistency.
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But then the other thing you guys showed me how to do is I really struggled with. It's a hamster wheel that never ends, and we were really good at social and the data thing. I had to learn it to be able to teach it, um, first and foremost because, and? But then I realized then that it was like how stupid was I to think that I didn't need to do that because I was just leaving all that meat on the bone. And then you guys showed me how to literally have a collision of worlds.
Speaker 2:We also closed the loop. Something I learned in the Marine Corps was after action reports. You know what I mean. So once they ran an appointment that we set for them, they sent us an after action report. Who owns it? Do we own it? You own it because someone owns it.
Speaker 3:Hey team, jim Cripps here with a charge forward podcast and I've got a special treat for you today. Uh, we're in the studio today with the man himself, nick heider. He is a serial entrepreneur. He's the co-founder of the hit hit lab studios, as well as he's the voice of Sirius XM Radio's two channels, the Alternative and Southern Rock. Nick, it's awesome being in the studio with you today.
Speaker 1:Well, I couldn't agree more, man. I'm so excited to kind of get into what it is that we came together to talk about today Because, again, I'm big on speaking about what works. I can only speak great on what works for me and, um, and honestly, just working with you and your business partner my leftover here um, changed, um, it changed my life and it changed, uh, my ability to scale. Like I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 3:That's right. Well, and that's why this is such a special treat is because it's not hard for me to find Nick in the studio, but Clayton Geiser flew down from Illinois and is here in the studio with me today.
Speaker 2:When it's Nick and Jim, just say the word and I'm on a plane that's right, and that's really kind of how that worked out.
Speaker 3:Nick and I were talking and he was like what do you think the odds of Clayton flying down next week and us jumping in the studio together? You told him I was a.
Speaker 2:Delta diamond member. With a million miles.
Speaker 3:And it was easy peasy from there. But you know, I think one important piece is you know why are we sitting in this room, why are we having these conversations? And it's because we figured out that we can help more people collectively than we could separately. And I know anybody with an Instagram feed knows quite a bit about Nick Heider. But, clayton, please introduce yourself to the world, because we're we're both a lot easier to find you hide.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I spent some time hiding, I don't you know. There's not much to say. You know, my background was in marketing and advertising, specifically call centers. Um, I owned a couple um, one we sold in 2009 and the other I sold in 2015. Yeah, From there, you know, I, I ran a software company for about five or six years and then, uh, you and I went into business together and it's been great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's been fun. And you know, one of the um, one of the hallmarks that I think is just I truly believe in, and that is it's not uh, it's not the next dollar, it's not the next customer, it's it's you are, you're looking for the people that help success and just the way you feel about doing work be either great or terrible, right, and you guys, working with the two of you in all of our many different disciplines, just makes it easy. And so, nick, a lot of this has come together because you had some opportunities. You had some people that were looking for um help in certain areas and then, as we started talking, I could see your eyes open up. You're like, oh you, you guys, you guys do that.
Speaker 1:So well, you know, um, first of all, I'm I'm here today because, like every time I get on a call with you two guys, I learn new things right. So I get to learn for free today because we're wearing microphones or using microphones, so I'm really excited about that. Um, no man, you know, jim, just in in my I have nothing but respect for you and your ability to grow and scale businesses, specifically uh, culture. And you know, one of the pain points in in my world has been, um, you know lead creation and lead nurturing and you know, you know, speaking to it enough times, um, you poured so much uh wisdom and you guys have both poured so much wisdom into me with that.
Speaker 1:But, like, the problems you solved for me were literally like life changing, because not only did it collapse so much time that I was able to put back into my business and go home, but it made me have. It made me made my ability to connect with the people in my network and my customers. It made it where it was almost a seamless transition and it's honestly, I'm still taking it all in. It's blown my mind what you guys have done For what we were already doing. I thought really, really well, it turns out it wasn't that great. And now it's on the uphill climb and I mean we're changing everything. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's fun because, you know, several times I've been in a conversation with you or been in a meeting with other people and they're describing a problem that is just so easy to fix, but they don't know who can fix it. They don't know who has access to that kind of volume or that kind of data or to be able to look at it. And you know, that's really. That's where Clayton's experience not because he just loves data, but because he's had to have his hands so just ingrained in it that he dissects it and makes it it looks easy.
Speaker 3:So, Clayton, if you will. Just I mean, you've been on these calls and you know they're overwhelmed or they're. They don't know what they don't know and you just jump straight in what? What does that look like? How has that been fun?
Speaker 2:Well, you know and I don't think I ever thought of I you know I need to be in data. You know I was never that personality type type, but I'm becoming more of that as as the years go on. But you know, I just love solving problems for customers, the right ones. I like hearing about their business, what they've done that's unique, and then coming up with different solutions to make sure that we grow with them. And you know, as I've mentioned before, you know line of sight is huge, so I like to see what the end goal is and help solve the problem.
Speaker 3:To kind of get there, yeah, Well, and I got to tell you I was a little bit spoiled in that, you know, I used data for so long to make business decisions that it didn't really occur to me that other people weren't or they didn't have access to a lot of data. But when you, when you start talking to people, you know, I met with a potential client maybe a year ago and I said so, what are you doing with your data? And she said, um, well, what do you mean by that? I said I said well, what about all your customers? You know, I heard the whole reason that we were talking is I was told that she did great corporate gifts. I said, well, what about those customers? And she goes that's the stack over there. And she pointed to a stack of papers.
Speaker 3:Clearly, you're not doing anything with that data. And and data is so valuable these days whether we're talking about with your customers, with your potential customers, and the big piece of it to me is, if you are not leveraging data to be in front and to be at least known, the less ethical versions of you are. So you almost owe it to your customers and your potential customers to be out there leveraging data, being in front of that potential customer. If you, if you truly have a desire to serve. And so, nick, I know that's near and dear to your heart because you're on several different committees, several different charitable groups. What is it? What is your idea of serving in the future?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I go all the way back to Jesus, Jesus and his disciples, and he said you go to, you got to go where they're at, you got to go where they are, and and people are on a screen or a device, right? So you know, there's two worlds that we live in the in-person world and the world of Internet, the digital world, and you have reputation and and and there's. You know, the first thing data did for us in the insurance industry is it gave us something for the agents to do. Yeah, you know, because they didn't have anybody who could they call. It's like, you know, prospect, where you breathe, I think, is what I was told, and it's like dude. So, you know, you've brought me on here and now you just want me to call my own people and I don't feel comfortable calling them because I don't know what I'm doing Right. So I don't want to burn that bridge, you know.
Speaker 1:So data gave me the ability to take shot after shot after shot, rep after rep after rep, and really hone in my craft. But, more importantly, it allowed me to do it to somebody across the country. I wouldn't get a bump into it, a Kroger at the grocery store, you know which, which was a huge help. But then the other thing you guys showed me how to do is I really struggled with. You know, once you get on the hamster wheel of data, of data marketing, if you don't know how to to use that same data once people become customers or become tomorrow's customers, or really just filter them down and label who they, what they are or what kind of buyer they are. It's a hamster wheel that never ends.
Speaker 1:And we were really good at social and the data thing. I had to learn it to be able to teach it. Um, first and foremost, cause and. But then I realized then that it was like how stupid was I to think that I didn't need to do that because I was just leaving all that meat on the bone. And then you guys how to, how to like literally have a collision of worlds and take somebody from the data train to be able to, to get referrals and then even leverage that into social media and social media communities. I'm telling you, it's life changing.
Speaker 3:Well, one of the things that I hate when people say is you know, they'll say that we're the best kept secret, and to me that's that's an insult.
Speaker 2:That's an insult. It's not a good thing.
Speaker 3:That's right, and so you've got to be known. You've got to be known if you're going to be successful and if you're, if you've grown a business, you owe it, if not to your customers or potential customers, you owe it to your employees to continue to grow so that they have they have a place to call, a call home or to work. Fact, um Clayton uh, you know, in this and as we've gone through this process and you know we've, we've jumped on the some of these calls with people that have problems or need data what's something that stands out to you as a problem that keeps reoccurring?
Speaker 2:no-transcript is. You know and you don't know you're not intentional and you don't know why you're doing this. You're just going blindly at it. You're you're going to have a thoroughly average result if you're lucky. Yeah, you know. Once again, you need to be intentional. You need to know what variables make sense or make a difference and you need to exploit those and go after them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you have a saying that you really like. It's time. Need Trust, timing, need money yeah, that's what time needing money? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what people need in order to buy, yeah, and consistency builds trust. So executive prospecting group, the second call center I owned, that was a big part of it, and this was 2010 to 2015 when I sold it. So in 2010 we were doing lead nurturing for our clients, so it was telemarketer. It was a point of setting company. We were doing high-end stuff for very high ticket items, right. So it's hard to find a telemarketer that's going to be able to call, get ahold of a decision maker you know in in a large company and talk about something that costs six figures, right.
Speaker 2:Or get them to have a meeting, and so what we would do is because these salespeople, you know they're great at closing deals but they were horrible at keeping up with, you know all the calls that you need to make, all the followups, keeping everybody on your radar, and we were just set up that way. You know I knew what personality type I needed to have and when you hired us, you just got appointments right and we did generate leads of people I want more information or whatever it was right and we did generate leads of people I want more information or whatever it was Right. But we worked those Okay and we also closed the loop. You know, something I learned in the Marine Corps was after action reports. You know what I mean. So once they ran an appointment that we set for them, they sent us an after action report. Who owns it? Do we own it? You own it because someone owns it and what's the system? And then you know, just as a general rule, you know, yeah, we'll call you next quarter, but we call them every 60 days. We email them once a month, right, until they become active again.
Speaker 2:You know, and what was great for our customers is we had that whole system and really it came from. Someone asked me they're like Clayton, we've got salespeople that are productive. You know how do you find them? I said, well, you know, you look for all the things that they teach you in a book. You know nice shoes, whatever. But they also have to have a system, they have to have a process. And I felt like executive prospecting group gave them that system, that process, so that we were protecting them from ourselves. And that translates into today's world very well, because now there are so many automation tools out there that you know you can set systems without the human intervention. And you know, I think that's where you and I, jim, we're going to shine, because you know this is 2030 marketing that we're doing in 2025. That's right.
Speaker 3:That's right. Well, you know, and one of the things that I love about the group that really, nick, you have put together here between those of us sitting in this room and others is kind of like a sports team in that we all have a different role to play, mm, hmm, and collectively we get to help more people in a better way by joining forces and, uh, you know, and as part of that process, we also know who we don't fit with. Yeah, meaning, we're not out here trying to help everybody. In fact, I would say, collectively, we turn down more customers than we take facts to make sure that it's win-win and that we're going to get not a referral but multiple referrals from each of these interactions, because we know how we all work together. And so, you know, I feel like it was really kind of your brainchild. What was the trigger? How did you come around to that?
Speaker 1:Well, any excuse to work with you was, first thing, right, seriously, and that. But the other thing was is, you know, with the emergence of, of AI, okay, ai creates a big time problem, exposes your, your, your limits in data, right, whether it be bad marketing or just you don't have enough or you don't have the right data. Right, that's right.
Speaker 1:So um or just you don't have enough, or you don't have the right data. Right, that's right. So, with the emergence of AI and always wanting to be innovative, well, first of all, ai is a pretty new product. Most people don't know the difference between high-ticket AI and low-ticket AI, or premium AI versus not premium AI, and I feel like it's the same way. The same problems exist with data, but I mean mean, think about that. You know you buy premium ai to run low level. You know it's like putting a four-cylinder engine in a ferrari or something like that just refining your own gas and putting in an audi.
Speaker 1:That's exactly, that's exactly right. So, um, you know the emergence of the emergence of AI. It just made sense. But I had to be with the right company that's going to make sure, Because, again, I've got this great AI system here and again there's a lot to learn on that. But then how does it play with the data? And you know, I need an expert. I need an expert Because, again, it's my time, it's my people's time, but that data is people and there's people going to be on the other end of those emails and those phones man and getting access to their inbox or getting access to their cell phone.
Speaker 3:I think people need to take a little more stock in that and understand that it's a great pleasure to have that accessibility I think you, I think it's pretty easy to make an analogy of racing, in that we could be racing go-karts and you know it's whatever. Whatever you're able to, you know, slap together in order to come out here and have a little fun. But if we're taking this serious and we're going to go race formula one, well, um, we're not asking the engine max engine manufacturer to make the fuel, that's right. Nor are we going to the engine manufacturer and saying, hey, can you make the tires Like, let them specialize in what they do amazingly well, you know, because you know you, having this podcast studio and really helping people dial in their branding is fantastic, great, now you've got a great brand. So you, you got you can be out in front of more customers. But how do we? How do we get you out in front of more customers?
Speaker 2:You need more data.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, we got more data, but we got to have a good engine to run it with.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You know. So think of the data as the fuel. That's right, and so you know don't get me wrong I'm I'm all about making sure that the race car looks pretty, but it's also got to be faster, otherwise what are we doing here?
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 3:So it all translates to why. Why are you putting all these people together? Well, it's it's to make sure that whatever problem or whatever solution needs to come across in order to make sure that this, this team, is race ready.
Speaker 1:We got it, it's, it's. It's the closest thing to the Avengers I've ever seen.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love it man, well, and you know, with just a real quick with Nick, you know, I always heard. You know, to use your racing analogy, you don't make money on the straightaways, you make money on the curves, right, you know that's good, right, so when, when times are great and everything's normal, that's not when you make your money, it's the curves, you know that's when you hire, that's when you can attract the best talent because they were let go or there's less opportunities out there. Ai is a curve right now. Okay, and, like I said, you don't make money on the straightaways, you make money on the curve. So people that know how to handle that curve, which Nick identified months and months ago when we had that conversation, you know that's impressive and now you and I, jim, have a responsibility to make sure he doesn't waste the curve that's right, jim.
Speaker 1:I saw so many great people that could have been really good in the insurance space with me mm-hmm that that couldn't get past. Um, the the data issues that we had it. It costs me um, I won't say relationships, but I could. Um, but it costs me definitely working relationships and um, there's quality. It costs me quality of life. Yeah, it costs others quality of life. There's quality. It costs me quality of life. Yeah, it costs others quality of life, and I was the one that led them there. Um, you just gotta be better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think anytime you're leading a team and you had how many agents, hundreds, yeah, and and when you're, when you're leading that team and I know you think the same way is you have a responsibility to them. It's that whole. You know where this word has kind of gotten misused. They were in your charge, not you were in charge. People get that backwards. It's not about you being in charge, it's about your people being in your charge, which means you're responsible for them. And so to business owners out there that's why a lot of them get on the calls with us is they want to do things better? Or you know, they're getting data from a source and it's you know, it's old, and so, yeah, they got volume, or maybe they don't have volume. They're getting good, good data, but they don't have any volume, and so it's about solving that for them, so that all the pieces come together.
Speaker 1:Well, the AI. In my opinion, clayton, tell me what you think about this, because, again, the biggest problem we had was, you know, on average, depending on the year, because I'm not going to go do that, but let's just say it's between the 13th and 20th contact attempt that a record or a lead became a true prospect, like it was a two-way conversation about possibly closing a deal.
Speaker 1:Once they had the middle of the funnel or bottom of the funnel, type, yep. So but you know, but with with the right AI engines, you know it's, you can. You know people get sick, they get stuck in traffic, they're, they're late there. You know stuff happens and the AI does. It has none of those restrictions, right and um, you know. So it's going to lower costs because so much of the data. Just it was stopped after contact attempt three or four. You didn't get to that 15, 18, or 20th time when the deal happens, right, and the AI can be programmed that that doesn't happen. So not only can you fly through 10 times at 10x the data, if not, if that, probably even way more than that but more importantly, you're going to get to the bottom of is this, is the person on the other end of this record, are they a buyer or not? Or are they a buyer later, or is it just a relationship I need to have or what else it needs to be? So I believe it's going to drastically lower customer acquisition costs.
Speaker 2:Well, it could, for sure, drastically lower um customer acquisition costs. Well, it could for sure. The problem that they're going to run into is, since there's, since it's so efficient to your point, about 10 X um they're they're going to utilize the data quicker. Okay, so you're going to need more of it.
Speaker 2:All right, and I don't think there's a lot of data brokers out there that really want to lower their price or give you more or anything like that. So what you've done for us is you've kind of put that um, that spark in us Like, how do we solve this problem? You know, nick helped us realize that people are going to need a lot of this information and it needs to be better. Okay, it needs to be good information. We need to figure out what's going to make a difference. How are we going to be different? But how do we keep it so that it's reasonable and our customers can move forward?
Speaker 2:And, nick, you've been great in framing that up for us. I think it's kind of one of those things where you know, we can't see the forest for the trees necessarily. And since you frame that up and just based on experience, we've gotta make sure that we find the players out there that are really interested in just crushing it and coming up with the right amount of data, yeah, you know, the right amount of leads and making sure that those efficiencies, you capitalize on them because you know, I think you you can run those efficient AI bots, or whatever you want to call them assistants, and you know they're going to do great for two weeks. And then what? I mean, they've moved the ball quicker than you could, you know, because they're doing multiple things at the same time, you know. So you just got to kind of keep feeding it.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Oh yeah, that's big time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I do think that that's an important piece of it that people are going to change how they do business to know that my marketing dollar resulted in a sale or it did or it didn't, so that we could pivot. We could, we could make changes really faster than our competitors. And that's going to be more important going forward than ever before, because you're going to have to be looking at OK, did the data result? You know, did the AI do its job? Did the data do its job? What did that result in? Am I going to grow faster? Do I need more people? It's just going to speed up so many things because you've got race fuel in the engine.
Speaker 1:The biggest thing that made you guys stand out to me with what you're doing at surface level was you weren't just asking like you were asking me who's your customer. You're trying to help me target the right people. You know I'm not walking up to people saying you want a steak and they're vegetarian. You know what I mean. Like that's, that's a, that's a big deal, um. But the biggest value that I got is by asking those questions, you were literally helping me fill out all my like for my campaigns to send the people um, to cause it's important that you talk to the person that you're talking to, but then now you know what are you going to say, what is the purpose of you reaching out to them? For you know, and, dude, like so I mean it was, it was just like mind blowing when I'm having these conversations with you guys based on the questions you're asking. It's like dang, dude, they just get it, they just get it.
Speaker 3:Well, it's fun, too, when you start having conversations and you find out that people had needs that they didn't even know could be solved, or they didn't know that the data was available for that, and that's really what makes us different and kind of why our perspective is different. Now we've all got either preteen or teenagers. What do you guys think is a tip or trick or something that you would share or maybe you already have shared with your son or daughter about AI or data or the future?
Speaker 1:Good question, yeah, great question.
Speaker 2:You want to go first? Well, I think we should go to commercial break. I love it. Got to make a few phone calls.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. The Internet, for a kid, is no different than a loaded gun, man, because, again, it can be extremely toxic or it can be the greatest thing to everything that you do, that you touch that and affect everything that you do. Um, it's an unbelievably powerful tool and, again, I wouldn't put a loaded gun in a 13 year old's hand, um, and definitely give him free access to it, Um, especially if that gun could come back with evil guns that wanted to to do ugly things to them. You know, um, or or whatever, or not. So you know it was um. I want my, I'd never. I don't want my son, um, scared of it per se, but I do want him to fear it, Right, Because I think fears are very powerful too, especially if you're a fighter. It's healthy, Um, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think I just ripped off so Rocky Balboa, as a matter of fact, when I just said that right, that's right, um, you know, but I want them, I want him to use it and I think that, again, the earlier you can master a skill that you can use for the rest of your life, I think I think the better Right. So you know, I didn't show him rated R movies when he was five years old because he wasn't ready for that information. So I don't know if there's a specific age that you do it, but I definitely think, like, kids are fascinated with technology and they're drawn to it. And you know what, dude, I've learned a ton from my son. I'm going to throw that out there right now. My 15 year old son has taught me a lot of stuff that I'm making a lot of money with right now. That's right.
Speaker 1:And, um, he's going to be like dad, where's my finder's fee, right? So I got you, bro. I got him, um, embrace it. But just, you know, you're going to give a 16-year-old a car. They're going to drive one, and it can kill people and themselves. So how did you prepare them for that? Figure out those things and use those same training elements and informational deliveries that you give to those, that exposure to those teens when they do that. But I would say embrace it. Man, you got to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think you're absolutely right. It's about embracing it and using it responsibly, you know, and making sure they have a line of sight into what the options are, you know, so they don't have to try to touch the stove, you know. Is there a good way for us to tell them it's hot, you know, and not to do it? Now, I'm sure all of us here are one of those where we were told not to touch the stove. We touch it anyway, right, and our children are going to be the same way, right?
Speaker 3:Well, they're going to push their boundaries. That's just what part of being an adolescent is.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you look back and you're like you know, oh, you want your children to have the knowledge you have to avoid things, right, but you can't teach them everything. So you just got to lead by example, you got to lead with love and you got to make sure that you're going to trust in their decisions. You can't teach them all about the past. I remember when my brother had children years and years and years ago. They're all adults now. Right, we were sitting around at Christmas or something and they got a box of old toys out. We had a toy phone, right, kid picks it up and it's got a cord on it. He rips the cord out and just starts walking and talking. You never saw a corded phone. Well, we're not going to be able to teach our kids all about quarter phones and everything else, but you know we can teach them. You know how. You know how to recognize and behave in an ethical way.
Speaker 3:So the reason I asked that question is really kind of two or three fold one because, legitimately, with our children, how are we having those conversations? Because the things that we're talking about, the things that we're doing right now, will change the opportunities and the jobs and the roles that are available when, when they get ready to enter the job market and the workforce, right. Also, I kind of look look at it like um, we are in that adolescent stage because this is a new technology even to us. That's right, and you know, let's just say we've got a, a potential client. A lot of times it's like they're our younger brother, younger sister, etc. Because they don't know what we know about this particular area.
Speaker 3:They may be, you know level, they may be the equivalent of a 40-year professional in their field, but when it comes to data, or when it comes to social media, or how to leverage data, social media, ai, all these tools together to amplify what they're already doing or to be able to serve more people, they may be the equivalent of a newbie. And so it's, it's our job to teach them enough that they can make an informed decision. And how many of these disciplines do they want to put together? Do they understand why they work together? Or you know, some are not interested. And if you're not interested, I would. I would be remiss if I didn't say you're probably gambling your company's future. I'm not saying you've got to become an expert. You've either got to hire one or you've got to start working with one. Oh yeah, especially in a place like Nashville.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I'm all about getting to the destination quicker, right? So, in my opinion, you partner up with you guys, you get your experts fast track it and you learn why you're having success.
Speaker 3:Right, that's right. Well, it's that whole analogy of you're going to pay either in time or in money and it's up to you to choose. Either in time or in money. And it's up to you to choose. And and there again, that's why we typically work with successful businesses already, because they have revenue, they are spending money in marketing, whether it's working or not, and we can help optimize their efforts. And when I say efforts, it's not only their effort, but it's also their, their expenditure.
Speaker 2:Well, when you're looking at taking leads that are sold as a commodity, right, and making them good, but not making the lead better, but making sure that it's just more targeted, more focused on what was delivered to you, sure, right, based on your variables. You can probably figure that out as one of our clients. You're smart people, nick, you're brilliant. You can figure it out. But it's like changing an engine. Do you want to learn that for the first and only time you're ever going to do it?
Speaker 2:I mean the first time you, if you're in the engine changing business. The first time you did it it took forever, it wasn't great. It's like tying your shoes the first time you did it it took forever and the knot wasn't very good, you know. But we tie shoes all the so when we do it then you know it's done pretty quick and then pretty dang good, not when it's all said and done. So you know you.
Speaker 2:You can't be an expert at every aspect of your business. That's why you surround yourself with with a good group of people, and there's things that we will never do, because we're just not good at it. We don't want to learn it, yeah. Well it's not what you don't want.
Speaker 3:Well, we work with professionals too, yeah, uh, in different disciplines, to make sure, uh, if you're trying to become an expert in everything, you're going to end up, you know, forgetting more than you know, and somebody's out there going to be running circles around you, um. So, again, there's there's times when you need to, you need to spend some money in order to, uh, circumvent the time or the effort or the bumps and bruises that we've definitely gotten along the way.
Speaker 1:Definitely don't take time for granted, man, because, like again, we don't. We don't know how much we got.
Speaker 1:Again, it's it's the only asset we, we constantly invest that we don't know the current balance of you know, so you know how much time do you have, um, how much time do you actually have to grow that business, but while it's still a viable business or a viable concept, before the world changes, you know so, before you get left behind, as a matter of fact, Well, the other thing that I see too, especially in this particular space, that we're in space and time.
Speaker 3:You've got a lot of things at play.
Speaker 3:Not only do you have AI coming into the picture, not only do you have opportunities, like with us, with massive amounts of data, um and targeting social media at our fingertips, but you've also got this massive amount of boomer generation that is aging out of their businesses, Mm-hmm. So you've got a workforce that is nearing its end, that has accumulated wealth like like no other has, and they have these viable businesses. You don't have necessarily the people to take them over, because they're they're children or you know they don't have a succession succession plan. You, you have a generation that maybe is not interested in learning that. You have a somewhat decline in um, new population, and then you have these new tools. So are you going to leverage those things, and how many of those things are you going to leverage in order to maximize the opportunity to change your family tree or, to, you know, increase the opportunities in your company or for the people that you're responsible for, that are in your charge? Or are you going to be on the sidelines watching somebody else?
Speaker 1:It would be a shame. I was always told never take the chef out of the kitchen, Right? He's not creating that next gourmet masterpiece. Learning how to how, learning how to, how to, how to market data. You know how to, how to do, how to do, be a better steward of their data. It's just not going to happen. But what could be great is when they, when that chef goes in that kitchen and creates that next masterpiece, well then, his data partners are like great, Now that you did that here's how you tell them that's right, exactly Right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Um. What do you, what do you see as the biggest? This is both of you. What is the biggest opportunity that you see? Um, not just with, with our group working together, but just in general, like what? What are you most excited about right now?
Speaker 1:Uh, I just man. I've got an unbelievable network. I'm blessed with some amazing relationships with some very, very um, uh, high performing people, um, and high performing businesses, and they all need this, unanimous, like it's unreal right. They need this.
Speaker 2:Well, you know. On that same note, yeah, surrounding myself with myself, with, with a plus operators is is really key for me, like nick. But I think where we're going to turn a corner and what I'm excited about is, you know, we're talking about all this automation and it seems like there's just going to be a lot of phone calls the same person or something. Well, it could be that. Or if you figure out a scale it doesn't have to be it could you just get the relevant stuff, and I'm excited about seeing how we can make it relevant not only for our customer but their customer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if it. You know, if this was a retail place they're always trying to figure out. You know the, the placement on the shelf is extremely important, you know? Can the customer find what they need, um, in the right place? It's always frustrating when you go to the grocery store and, like you know, they always had the Krispy Kreme donuts. They're never in the pastry aisle or with the donuts, are always in the middle of something somewhere else and you gotta like. It's always a mystery to me why they do that.
Speaker 1:And, um, you know, at the end of the day, the we're, we're finally starting to realize that, that the, the data or the digital information that we have about other people, is an actual asset of the business or the brand that you know. Again, when you have an asset, assets can gain value, right, just like the home that I live in, um, and, and, and you know. So, when you exit the company or anything else, the asset can go into the price point of the sale and everything else. But, more importantly, as you accumulate more and more and more data, just like, the retail store is going to constantly rearrange where they put stuff to get better performance, to make it better, to make it easier for people to find so they can consume more of it. I believe you should be doing that with your data all the time.
Speaker 1:Cause it. You know, a year from now, how much more am I going to have and how much more am I going to know about it, right? So I would want to work with you guys and be like all right. So here's the mountains of data that we have and, like you know what's the best way to reorganize it and reuse it, and and over and over again to it, burning it, moving to the next thing. It's like nah, dude, it's an asset, like you know. Again, if the people moved, I want to update it, you know, because I want to be able to. I love being able to tell strangers or clients happy birthday. I love being able to build relationships just from the data that I have, with the automation and the amazing digital tools that we have at our, at our fingertips.
Speaker 3:Well, that's really how you leverage data, is you build relationships with it? Um, I mean, if you, if you think about it from a standpoint of the goal with data, is is to do a couple of things. One, get in front of more people to remove the obstacles that keep them from buying or from being able to make a decision. You know them, them hiding the Krispy Kreme donuts, you know, is that strategically, because you're going to buy more, or is that, um, because somebody decided?
Speaker 3:to change shelves because they thought it looked better somewhere else. You got to have the data in order to be like in your own business as well as from a marketing standpoint, you need to be leveraging data as to why you make the decisions you make.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, nick, you just you did it again. I think I have an idea. It's probably not a good one, but to your point, on the grocery stores you go into, I have two Walmarts in my town.
Speaker 2:It's a small town right, but I have two. There's completely different product placement because one's the west side, one's the east side. Different people we have college kids on the east side and we have different people on the west side. So you go in and you're not going to find the same stuff. On that note, you're talking about wishing people happy birthday. With our insurance data, we have their birthday. Why don't we just figure out every day who it's their birthday and we'll send them a birthday message and we'll generate leads that way?
Speaker 1:there you go. That's exactly right, so let's do a birthday campaign isn't that why krogerroger started the Kroger Plus card came from is because they're literally tracking everything that you buy, so now they know when to let you know when it's on sale and trigger transactions.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, like I told you earlier, it's not the government that's tracking you, it's Procter Gamble.
Speaker 3:They know everything about you Well even if you think about it, even their strategy of giving you 10 cents or 20 cents whatever it factors off of your gasoline is to get you back to their parking lot so that you go. Oh, I needed to pick up this while I was here. Are you, as a business owner, leveraging your data the same way?
Speaker 1:Um, I would say I'm going to throw a number out there and it may be totally false, but let's just say, on a revenue perspective, I'm going to say if you're doing eight figures, 10 million or more, you're probably doing at least an average job with it, and if you're doing below that, you're not and there's a lot of meat left on the bone or you're just. You just haven't been around long enough to do that, but you're doing it Great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Well, again you've got to. I mean, if we think about, why is Amazon so successful? Well, cause it's easy that you don't have to enter your credit card in, and every time it's just you click the button that's already got your information saved, right? Um, it already knows what you're looking for. Before you know what you're looking for. It's making suggestions and delivered to your house the same day.
Speaker 3:The delivered to your house the same day, all of those things they are making it easier to buy. If you are out there, you're not leveraging data, you're not getting in front of your customers, whether it's it could be from a very noble place you could, you could be like well, I don't, I don't want to bug people. Okay, your competitors are, and if you have a quality product and you are a better product, whether that's from a pricing standpoint, whether that's from a quality standpoint maybe it's both then you're competitors. You're actually saying that your customers or your potential customers are not important enough for you to either engage with that discipline, learn that discipline or hire somebody who can help you with that discipline.
Speaker 1:I'm going to throw something else out there for everybody today, and because AI is a big hot topic, a talking point right now and again. The average Joe doesn't know much about AI. They don't know how the premium versus not premium, right, right? Well, how are they going to find that out? Well, they're going to use that AI for their data. So I would say like, if you're, if you're on the verge of or on the, you know, trying to make decision, we know, I feel like I should get to know AI a little bit, learn more about it, or whatever. Who better else to talk to than you guys about? Because you've got performance, you've got analytics, you've got all this stuff, you've already got the relationships in place. So, how much time can you save people earning the AI industry just because they can talk to you guys, because they're already working with you on a data perspective?
Speaker 3:A ton. The other thing that I think ties directly into that is this misconception there's a lot of people out there that are afraid of AI or think it's the big bad wolf or whatever that is, and so they're intentionally not learning it because they think it's going to go away. Well, I'm here to tell you it's not going away and your competitors are going to be using it. And do you want to start off at where everybody was two years ago, trying to figure it out? Or, nick, to your point, do you want to circumvent those hard knocks or those those things you didn't even know it could do, and kind of get to the point of it helping your businesses, helping your customers, helping your team members, helping their families, et cetera?
Speaker 3:Now, um, I forget who said it, but somebody likened it to, uh, the tractor and how, when a tractor first came out, there were a lot of farmers that said no, no, no, it's going to take, it's going to take my farm hands, uh, their job away, so we're not using a tractor. Well, what ended up happening? The guy that said this is a tool, I'm going to use it. Now he's farming thousands of acres of land and those other farms are gone away. The same thing is going to happen in businesses businesses that leverage data and AI and those that don't, and you will no longer remember the ones that didn't.
Speaker 1:I just figured out what it is that makes you guys so unique, and that is, you know, whether it's AI or data, at the end of the day it's communication between humans and you make sure that that is front and center, that these are people that are, that are, that are being considered here, that are on the line here. These are. These are all data, is it's, it's it's on a spreadsheet and it's names and all this at birthdays and all this other stuff, but it's people and AI is. So you guys have a unique way of humanizing something that that is quickly forgotten. That it's that there's humans involved.
Speaker 2:Right? Well, I mean, we're talking about ai doing prospecting. You know, I think the timing factor is going to be huge, you know what I mean. So making sure that it's it's reaching out when it's supposed to, and and all those things that make humans good with it and also make humans bad. It's going to pick up on those, it's going to leave off the shortcomings and it's going to add something new. So with that, you know, you've got to be very deliberate and intentional in who it's reaching out to, what it's trying to accomplish, what the main goal is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, does that make sense? It does, and you know, I know I've told both of you this story, either collectively or separately. But you know AI video, for instance. We know that when we get that video that says thank you for your order and it says our name and it says what product we bought, we know that that's not real. We know that that was created by AI and it was sent to us my brother-in-law so this is a shout out to Ammo Ceramic Coatings I think they're out of New York. So we had had this conversation and we're talking through it. We had recently been working on an AI project together.
Speaker 3:And so he buys some products for his Jeep and 10 minutes later he gets this video. This is hey, greg, just want to say thank you for ordering from us. This is the product you bought. Uh, this is how you're going to apply it. Oh, by the way, let me show you what we got in the shop. And the guy walks through, shows you the new car that's in the shop and this and that, and he called me and he goes man, shows you the new car that's in the shop and this and that, and he called me, and he goes. Man, I know that it was AI generated. I know that he wasn't talking to me, but, man, it made me feel so good. That's right. That's right. So it does, if you're doing it right. It includes the human element. It helps build the relationship. It helps you continue to build the relationship with your customers, or with your potential customers, in a very systematic way that you have consciously decided upon.
Speaker 2:So I agree with you. So let's talk about like leads, right? So what, nick? You know this better than probably anybody even me, right? Who's been in the lead business. So what we used to do is you would get a bunch of leads, you give them to a salesperson right? And they work them right, supposedly, supposedly right. But now you've got the AI that's accountable and it does its own thing and it works them right. So what's going to change? Are the lead vendors going to change? Because something's got to be different, right? You know, you can't just this person's filling in for a human. The data has got to follow that, right? So you can't just replace that human with AI. In my opinion, the whole strategy has to be changed, and I think that comes down to you know where are you finding the people that you're going to talk to? You know where are you finding the people that you're going to talk to? You know, do it through leads. You know how does that group play into your social media? How's it?
Speaker 1:playing to all the other things that are in your marketing mix. And yeah, I mean and, and you know again, when you, when you have that, that, that, that, that lead or that that group of records about some one person, and when you do, the more you learn, you can add to it. So you might not have birthday included, maybe something so simple, but you can ask them and you can make it and you can get more information. You can find out are they on Instagram, are they on Facebook, and you can connect them to there, and so on and so forth. So again, it just starts. It's a whole lot of handshakes. It's a whole lot of handshakes, it's a whole lot of handshakes. But again, a handshake only goes so far if all you do is introduce yourself and you never get past that. Right, hi Nick, hi Nick, Hi Nick, hi Nick.
Speaker 1:And that was in the old days, um, and I'm sure it's still happening today. Um, especially with insurance agents, was is they were just making a whole bunch of introductions and not having any conversations. Um, they weren't serving any problems. And this is how I kind of dumbed it down and you guys can tell me what you think about this. But, like you know, I literally had a conversation with an insurance agent the other day. That's a client of mine and the insurance agent was basically like I just want to. I want my leads to be like when I call them, they're ready to buy. I'm like all right. So all right, I hear you. That's great buy. I'm like all right.
Speaker 2:So all right, I hear you.
Speaker 1:That's great, um, but that's not a lead. Okay, no, that's, that's a sale, that's right. That's right, that's it. That's it, that's a deal. No, so let's just dumb this down to say, say, if this is a restaurant, all right. So the server doesn't have to call anybody, they don't have to invite anybody in, they literally just have a, they have a section. People just magically appear at their tables and order Right, all right. So the owner of the restaurant paid for the location that the hundreds of thousands or millions of cars drove by every so often and people saw it. They took the time to advertise and do all the things that make those people. Let them know that that restaurant was there in the first place to be able to place that order, to be able to place that order.
Speaker 1:So again, the word lead gets misused. So bad, because somebody that's right about right now isn't necessarily a lead. You know what I mean? It's kind of like I'm the detective and I'm standing over the body and Clayton walks up, he goes. He did it Right, I saw him. That's not, that's not a lead, that you just helped me solve the case. Yeah, that's that's it.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, and is that change like, um, you know you used to have like a lead life cycle and now it's more of a journey, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And again, you know we, we understand that these are digital assets now. So again, it's maybe that the digital assets that I have on this group of people or that person right now isn't relevant, but again, they may not be buying. But do they have kids? That might be a customer. Do they have friends and family? That might be a customer? Did I let them know that? Hey, if you have anybody that needs my services, I actually pay you X. That's like affiliate marketing is big for me. I love affiliate marketing, changed my life and that's like you guys have given me a great opportunity with that. Um. But because I have a great network of people that need your service.
Speaker 3:They need it. Well, our ideal client is one that is open to a conversation that is deeper than their normal conversation with a lead supplier, and what I mean by that is, our goal is not just to sell them leads. Don't get me wrong, that's our business model. That's how we generate revenue. Right, sell them leads, don't get me wrong, that's our business model. That's how. That's how we generate revenue, right? But so much of the the lead business has been turn and burn and then and then that's old data, right, and there's nothing. It's just piling up over in the corner. They're literally burning people, or or they're or it's gone, like they just got rid of it.
Speaker 2:They don't stick around forever, right? I mean, how many like think about your very first. Don't say the name, but think are they even around anymore?
Speaker 1:The first people you buy age leads from, do you think? I doubt it and like you know. And then the people, the leads that I bought, the information changed. They're now married or they moved and you know, and stuff changes. So but but again, the people didn't change, just some information about them did, and I would have had to buy that lead again if I had just kept kept in contact and kept it current, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, if you're in this business or whatever business you're in, if you're in it for the long haul, you know, let's just say you're. You're talking about a lead where they're interested in health insurance and they're 50 years old At and they're 50 years old At some point that becomes a Medicare potential customer right, but if you're not doing anything with your data, if you just look at it as like oh, I tried to call them, they didn't answer. Guess they weren't interested. Yeah, what are you going to do with that?
Speaker 1:data in 12 years. That's exactly, and this just dawned on me. This just came to me, right. So again, you follow people on social, you friend request them or follow them on Instagram, whatever it may be. So you have opted in to wanting to see what that person's up to. But we don't do that with data just because it's not on an Instagram platform or a Facebook platform. But imagine if you did you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Good salespeople do.
Speaker 1:All social media did is take data and connect people and make it where it just constantly refreshes Right you know, and is current.
Speaker 2:See, I'm glad you had him on, man, I learned so much.
Speaker 3:Well, again it goes back to if you think about what sense development does. It is a data-driven strategy. It's about what what sense development does? It is a data driven strategy. It's not just data and it's not just strategy. It's how the two are married together, so that it's not just banging away like we're doing um 50 first dates. It's building that relationship over time because there's an evolving strategy. So you can't yeah, you can buy tons of data and you can use it one time and throw it away, but how do you use it?
Speaker 1:going forward. Well, clayton, like I you know I would I would say the thing that has stood out to me the most about you is like dude, when I present a problem to you, it's, I believe and I might be wrong, wrong, but I don't think you stop thinking about helping me solve that problem until the solution happens. I think it's literally on your mind 24, 7 until it gets there. And I can feel it when I'm talking to you like dude, it's like you won't even let me push that problem to the side, because you know how important of it is for me to solve that thing and how big of a difference it's, it's going to and like I'm just I'm telling you like you know, I've I've known Jim and worked with Jim for a long time, but like there's something so special about y'all, two guys, and how you compliment each other in the business. It's literally the, it's the perfect storm. I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 2:Well, that's awesome for you to say and it means a lot, especially coming from you. And, on that same token, you know, jim and I, we work very well together and we have a common goal, which I think you have, that goal too which is to make sure that our customers are taken care of. You know what I mean and that we're building, you know, a community and a family with our customers and with our business, and we have a responsibility to our current customers to make sure that we're still in business, right? So we're going to keep coming up with different solutions, we're going to keep moving forward, and it's times like this where it really helps our business and I'm sure yours as well, just to kind of hash this out. But getting back to leads, what we're doing today is not what we're going to be doing tomorrow, and we we've just got to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Exactly yeah that, that his Clayton's like um marketing IQ is off the radar.
Speaker 2:It's it's.
Speaker 1:It's unreal. I think I fooled him. Nah, I love it. All I know is I've, and again I put you guys in front of some very successful people. The feedback's been unanimous.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying? It's the proof's in the pudding and you went through it with me first so that I could feel comfortable to do that. And again, this has been a relationship that we've been. So, as we're recording this today, it's March, but we were having our first conversations in September 24. Like, we didn't rush to market with this, it had to get right, right.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, that's right. Well, you know, I think the other thing too is you know, nick, you've given us a lot of compliments over the last.
Speaker 3:I'm just getting started as we're talking. But you know, this thing only really works with the right partners and your network is second to none in my opinion. I mean because you know that it's gotta be somebody that cares about their business, has a strong backbone, uh, is is providing a quality service and it was not one of the bad actors out there, and so you know who you've introduced us to, to a lot of people who out there stands out as to you know somebody that you're like man, these guys over here are doing it really well and kind of leads to why you've made those introductions.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, in the, in the, I have a big background in the world of insurance and the insurance industry is unbelievable, because when you see like I, you know I I gotta be careful what I say, cause I had some very access to some very sensitive information, but just tens of millions of dollars spent annually on duplicate leads.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One company, yeah, you know 40, 50, $60 million on duplicate information and just, you could just stop talking right there and be like wait a minute, what? And? But the companies do so good, they still are prosperous and they still do great things. I know insurance companies might have a little bit of a bad, a bad rap word on the streets or whatever, but they're. The good that they do Isn't getting, isn't getting recognized, cause that's still happening.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying and it truly is and, and and I believe in it as a customer and as a as a business owner. But I'm, marketing is fascinating. Marketing, you know, money changes hands when problem are solved, right, and. And people can't put money in your hand and let you solve their problem if they don't know that you are there. So marketing is, is fun, and I remember there was episode of friends when Chandler got into advertising oh yeah, man, right. And I remember thinking I want to be an advertising. Justin Timberlake played a star and I think friends of benefits and he was in advertising and I always thought you get to create things that make people take action.
Speaker 1:You get to bring products to life. That's always been something in that was important to me and that that I, that I enjoyed, and then just life led me in into the places that I'm in now. And now we get to create content and so on and so on. But again, I could have the greatest commercial in the world, but if I can't get it to the people, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And again you got to go where they're at, just like Jesus told his disciples, and people are on devices and um, and I want to make sure, like you know, what you guys can do with, with your innovation and everything else, is the content that my agency can make. You can give it new purpose, right, you can give it new purpose and, honestly, like I wouldn't consider myself a CRM expert I probably know more than most people, but, like you know, I'm leaning on you guys for that stuff because you know what the hell is going on. The CRM is the tool that distributes man, like you know, so it's awesome.
Speaker 2:It truly is Well on. You know, in the same vein as Jesus, jesus taught his disciples how to pray Right. And you know I think that's a lot what Nick does. You know, he teaches people how to. You know, do those things. You know those meaningful things that lead to success and take care of their employees and all that stuff. So the real question is is what's next? And you know, how do we do it in the right way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I know, collectively we've got some big things that we're working on and then at the same time, we've got other things that are in the works. Nick, what are you most excited about outside of what we're doing here with leads and with data? What do you got cooking that you're fired up about for 25?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the SiriusXM Southern Rock Channel just went live. It just launched, which is very exciting. So it's. You know, having one station in the alternative that I got in 20, I guess it was 2023, is great. Having a second one is phenomenal. I love the relationship with SiriusXM. It's such a great company. I learn from them all the time. Xm it's such a great company. I learn from them all the time.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited about, again, affiliate marketing, and people come to my agency to get the word out. So this fills a big hole for me. So I'm really excited for what we're doing with the agency. You know, brad and I are working on a joint studio space here in town, which, again, this is huge. Oh my gosh. This is front and center in that whole project for me.
Speaker 1:Under the covers a little bit, but, um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm most excited, I think, cause I get to reconnect with some really, uh, really successful folks. Um, and I have new things to talk about. I like, I like being the one that brings ideas to the table. So, um, you know, on, on, on those fronts, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely excited about those. And then, but again, this has been something that, as an insurance, a high producer in insurance, for a number of years. This was the thing that I was challenged with that I really couldn't solve. I marketed on social and 99% of the other agents marketed with leads, and there was a big, gigantic gap there, and we're finally, with the help of you guys, I'm figuring out how to close that gap. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, what are you excited about? Well, I mean just our business continuing to move forward. And just as I look back, you know, in a reflective kind of a way, you know I've just kind of seen how it's evolved. But you know, with the relationship with Nick, you know he's like, hey, you know I'm talking to people that have this problem and we thought we could solve it and hopefully we are moving forward. I hope we grow that because you know we want to change people's lives for the better on both sides. You know our customer and their customers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, that's where we drive the satisfaction in what we do and the fun and all those things. I'm excited to learn the next thing, the next piece that we do, and the fun and and all those things. Uh, I'm excited to, to, to learn the next thing, the next piece that that we're able to bring in, and I don't have any idea what that's going to be, uh, but you know, as these, we're in an interesting time where things are moving very quickly, and if you don't have data, if you're not leveraging data, if you don't have leads, whatever, whatever, however you want to call it, obviously data can be all types of different things, depending upon how much intent there is there, but some people are going to be left behind and some people are going to grow like crazy.
Speaker 1:There's not as much separation between the big giant and the little guy anymore. Nope, because the tools are the same. It's just you know at what level are you able to use them.
Speaker 2:Well, give us about another month and there's going to be some disruption in the market.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:And it's fun too, um, but you know it's just going to speed these things up and you know where you run into trouble.
Speaker 3:At least, what we've seen is with some bigger companies, where maybe there's more red tape in order to make a decision. They're losing ground because they didn't make the decision fast enough, because it involves so many people, even some that are just and we won't name any names here for multiple reasons, but you know, clayton and I were on a call with one of our other products and for this particular company, it was going to save them $10 million a year and it was going to save their employees $3 million a year. Wow, but because the person on the other end of the phone was not revenue impacting, no stake in the outcome. Yeah, no stake in the outcome. No stake in the outcome. They, they just said we'll look at it for 26, so essentially saying it's not worth it. Enough for me to have a conversation to pursue this any further, even for 10 million dollars or for the three million dollars that our people are set will save, because I don't want to be, um, the I don't, yeah, you don't want to walk the plank.
Speaker 1:the gatekeeper yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the guy that owned the software company that I was I was running. You know he had like this big idea of this big company was going to do. I was like no one's going to walk the plank.
Speaker 1:You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean so that's that different tactics, because that may or may not happen. You know, and you don't want to like discourage it, but you gotta be real, you know and you gotta, you gotta know who the decision maker is the only thing I would add to.
Speaker 1:That is like I'd be like hey man, I tell when she, when that person said that you know they're not revenue impacted, I don't want to deal with it right now. Basically, totally understand, I totally get it. I just have one favor to ask Um, can I be in the room when you tell your boss that you said no to $10 million? Oh yeah, Could I just be there for that? Can I be a fly on the wall?
Speaker 3:Well, it was. It was interesting because I think we were both so caught off guard that somebody was would would actually say that yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, it was going to be millions of dollars, but it's okay. You know, we should have said oh, you're just the asset custodian, not the owner.
Speaker 3:But, but you know this is an interesting time because you've you've got businesses that will absolutely be saved in the next two years because they were willing to be open-minded about a new technology or about a new way of thinking about their business. And then you will have way more than that in businesses that were lost because they failed to act.
Speaker 1:You know, god has uh, god works in mysterious ways, they say, but like you know both you guys' life history leading up to this point to kind of get there. It's just, you know, when I met you, jim two, two and a half years ago, I would have never thought that we'd be having this conversation today. It wasn't even on my radar, like not even close. The whole, as a matter of fact, the conversation that we had in September that kicked all this off wasn't even on my radar in August. I mean, it wasn't even like it didn't even exist, right, but the problem did. But again, I was, that problem was on the back burner, like it is for most.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and that was just a in passing, you know, you know what's going on.
Speaker 1:Oh, we got this thing going on. You know the kind of a thing and well, you know we can do that. I'm going to, I want to. I want to just throw a little testimony out for you, for you guys, because and again, you, if you need to cut the edit this out, you can. It's going to be the only thing left.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Um, because you know, I don't know if you could necessarily do it for everybody. Maybe it was because I had earned it to a certain degree. But I brought you guys an opportunity, a pain point from somebody else, and you guys threw massive skin in the game to help solve that problem, meaning you guys went out and spent your own money on certain assets that needed to happen for that to even be considered a deal. That might happen or might not. It wasn't that. Yeah, we're going to do this and we get the deal. You, you put skin in the game and you did it, that you cared that much and like there's just so few companies that will do that. And, and again, you, if, if, at anything else, everybody has a care meter how much, how much you're getting. As my granddad would say, give a shit meter, right.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 1:Nobody's going to beat y'all's period, love it.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for saying that, and it was a deliberate decision. You know it was conversations, it wasn't just like, oh, we can do it. You know what I mean. When we make those decisions, we're all in and we know what the risks are and we've evaluated it and it was a calculated decision. Just, it was a data-driven decision.
Speaker 3:That's right well, and and for, you know, for companies out there that are trying to decide whether they, you know, take on a new technology, start working with us, start working with you, whatever that looks like. Um, you know there's, there's. It's not free and there's, there's an investment. You know, I think of what. You know. It's not free and there's an investment, you know I think of. You know, when I started podcasting, you said it's going to cost you money the first two years and then, if you do the right things, it might make money by the third year. And I said, okay, well, I'm ready. Mm-hmm, it took a little while to get ready for that, but I got ready for that.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Now we're in season two, mm-hmm, and that's a significant time investment and money investment, all those things. And so are companies going to be serious enough in order to take the leap, to make an investment in order to do better business, to do more business, whatever that looks like for them? For us, it wasn't just a hope, it was okay. Let's look at this six different ways, let's argue about it, let's have a debate, and then we're going to make the best decision we can make with the information, the data that we have at hand, and that's why we pull the trigger on that, I would challenge everybody to get to know.
Speaker 1:Try to get to know your vendor, your data supplier, and when you realize that they're not interested in that, that tells you everything you need to know. That's right, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 3:Well, Clayton, I'll throw this one your way. So somebody out there right now has been listening to this podcast and they're between a rock and a hard place. They've got the way they've been doing business for the last 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, whatever that looks like. They're not sure if this is for them or not. What do you tell them?
Speaker 3:You mean as far as like leads are concerned, leads or leveraging data or AI, what? What's just one bit of advice that you'd give them in order to make that decision? Or to pull the trigger, or, um, or even just look the other way?
Speaker 2:Well, they need to surround themselves with people they trust, they need to communicate and they need to take a step back and evaluate where it's going next. So, like like with Nick, like what's next for for the studio world? You know, I mean, what is next, what's going to happen next? And I see what you do and I know you're already on your way there. So you know, I mean, this is just an amazing operation, thank you, you know what I mean and and I see what you're doing with your packages and those kinds of things and wow, it's great, you're gonna nail this, we're having fun yeah, well, you're already nailing it.
Speaker 3:We're having fun nick. Same question to you, like somebody out there uh, whether it's they need to be doing a better job branding, whether it's they need to now combine their brand and their online presence or their social media presence with data, or whatever that looks like, they're at a crossroads right now and they're trying to decide do I take action right now? How do I evaluate whether I take action? Or they're getting ready to, you know, put their lounge chair up on the sideline and and let it go bomb.
Speaker 1:What advice do you have for them? Well, first of all, you know it's not a matter of of. If it's a matter of when, okay, you're either going to do it or you don't. Right, you're going to live or you're going to die.
Speaker 1:But people don't do things like this for two reasons. One of two reasons Either one it's a mindset issue, where they don't believe that they can actually do it. It's a disbelief in themselves. Success isn't for them. They're never going to outlive their own self-image. The other one is that they don't believe the hype is real.
Speaker 1:There's still people out there that don't think that social media works Right, when literally billions of people. If you have wifi, if you have access to internet, you have a social media profile pretty much almost everybody, except for my buddy, jordan, and I'm going to call him out real quick. He's still not on social, but um, but so it's. It comes down to one of those two things. If the belief is in yourself, there's ways to fix that. If your belief, if you don't believe the hype is real, like dude, you know, eventually this party is not going to be free anymore. Like you know what I mean. Social media ain't going to be free forever, like everything that we've talked about today social media, data, management, reaching out everything but physically shaking a person's hand can be done from this phone in my hand, right, and we all carry a phone in our hand or our pocket Like I can't even go from the bedroom to the living room without picking it up anymore. It's gotten that bad, that's right, so that's at the end of the day. That's where we're at.
Speaker 3:And then along those same lines. So one of the big things that is kind of I'm going to say the entry point for the hit lab studios piece of your business is kind of nailing down somebody's brand, what it is that they're about, and helping them with that image. How do they get in touch with you? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:Man, any DM on social, me and my team get it. They can email Nick at Nick Heider or just simply go. Everything is the hub is nickheidercom and anything and everything. Even if it was an introduction to you guys, I can make that right through those channels, right? So um, I'm I'm really easy to find it's. You know, h I T? E R, there's not anL in there, man.
Speaker 2:People try to put an L in there. You're just talking about that, not about you, but oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do it all the time. It's you know it's called reading Um it's you know it's start at the top left, work your way to the bottom right, work from left to right. Group words together as sentences and it works great. There's no L in Heider man, so nickheidercom, make it easy, that's right.
Speaker 2:And it's amazing what he's doing.
Speaker 3:Amazing, Absolutely Well the introductions, just the network that you've built intentionally, because it hadn't been that long ago that you didn't have a podcast and you were on a podcast that really kind of was the catalyst to what you're doing right now.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. And building a brand building anything starts off with a strategy, right? So? Which is why, again, I push people to you guys. The world of data can get very expensive, very quick, and it can be bottomless and endless and with no reward. You got to have a good strategy for what the data that you buy and then what you do with it after you get it Right. And it's the same thing with building a brand. At the HitLab, we have multiple packages, but it starts out depending on your budget and where you're at in your journey. Are you in fourth grade, fifth grade or ninth grade, you know? On the way up? So? But just to get in the door at the at the hit lab, it starts with just a strategy package, right, cause most people, most businesses, are living off the revenue and they don't have marketing money yet, right? So, again, if you're wearing all those hats as a small business, I promise you you're tripping over money. You can't see the forest for the trees and that's what.
Speaker 2:And usually about 90 days we help you find that money that gets you into into content and everything else. It's the same thing with data. Well, I think one of the greatest assets you have is you've got the aggregate experience of everybody you're working with and you bring that to the table. You know you try to do it on your own. I mean, it's just you, but you partner with somebody like Nick and you've got all that knowledge brought together and it's very organized, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's great, absolutely. We're having a good time, fellows. I love it. I mean we're having fun.
Speaker 3:Uh, clayton, I let people know where, where we can be located, how you can start doing business with us. What, what kind of well, jim?
Speaker 2:you're super easy to find because you're bold backwards that do so. You can get a hold of Jim. If you need to talk to Nick, get a hold of Jim. And if you need to talk to Jim, get a hold of Nick. But sensecustomcom or sense-leadscom great spots to find us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's it and team. So I know this is a little bit different flavor for the Charge Forward podcast, but this is one of those important times, important topics. If you own a business, if you run a business, if you're part of a business, it could be that your business future is dependent upon having this type of conversation. And so, again, we don't work with everybody, we're very selective, but at the same time, we are very honest with people. We point people in the right direction. So if you need to reach out again, that's sense-leads, or sense-leads for the lead side of things and then sense-custom for our consulting and management consulting business. There, again, this is the Charge Forward Podcast.
Speaker 3:I want to say special thanks to Nick Heider and his team here at the HitLab Studios in Nashville. Nick, thank you for being on. Thank you for putting all this together. Always a great pleasure. Bang bang, absolutely. Clayton, thank you for being on. Thank you for putting all this together. Always a great pleasure. Bang bang, absolutely. Clayton, thank you for flying down and being a part man. It's been great. You guys are awesome. I love it. Well, until next time. Team.
Speaker 3:I'm Jim Cripps with the charge forward podcast. Again, special thanks to our the team here at hit lab studios in Nashville and uh since custom development. Be safe and have a great time. Hit us up if you need some help with your data. We'll see you later. Team is Jim Cripps here with the Charge Forward podcast. I just want to tell you I love you. I appreciate you listening, I appreciate you for subscribing and sharing the Charge Forward podcast with people you know and you love, because that's what we're here for. We are here to share the amazing stories, the things that people have been through, the ways that they were able to improve their life, so that you can take little nuggets from theirs and help improve your story and be better tomorrow than you were today. I hope that this is the tool you needed at the right time and that you find value in the amazing guests that we bring each and every week. Thanks so much and don't forget new episodes drop every Thursday.