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Leadership, Ownership, and Legacy: A Journey with Josh Gifford on the Charge Forward Podcast
What happens when a leader takes full ownership, no matter the situation?
Join us for a deep dive into leadership, accountability, and personal growth with Josh Gifford on the latest episode of the Charge Forward Podcast. Flying in just for this episode, Josh reconnects with host Jim Cripps to reminisce over 15 years of collaboration and explore his transformative journey from Sprint to spearheading digital modernization projects in South Carolina. Josh is all about taking ownership—whether the situation is good, bad, or ugly—and his passion for leadership shines as he shares insights on digitizing EPA and Department of Agriculture forms, overhauling e-commerce platforms, and adapting to fatherhood with the same dedication he brings to his professional life.
This episode is packed with actionable advice, from leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT to train sales teams, to choosing the right words in leadership, to the critical role of selecting the right spouse. Josh reveals his three personal mottos for leadership—curiosity, responsibility, and empathy—and how these principles guide him in both his career and personal life. You’ll also enjoy light-hearted moments like a fun game of "Two Truths and a Lie," and heartfelt reflections on the legacy of fatherhood.
Whether you’re focused on career development, technology integration, or building stronger personal relationships, this episode offers valuable lessons and a renewed sense of purpose. Don’t miss out on this engaging conversation that’s sure to inspire and empower you.
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Hey team, welcome to the Charge Forward Podcast. I'm your host, jJim Cripps, in the HitLab studios here in Nashville, tennessee. Now I have a special guest for you today. We haven't seen each other for the last 10 years. He flew in. He's the first podcast guest to fly in specifically to do the podcast. I could not express my honor in that and he's just a rock star. Whether we're talking about business development, marketing, it, he's the guy that owns the situation. He's the guy that takes charge and makes sure that it all comes together. Please welcome, josh Gifford. How you doing, brother, doing very well. Thanks for having me. Jim man, I got to tell you when we talked last week and we talked, talked about coming on the podcast, and you were like, did I fly in? I was taken back. I was like, absolutely, we'll figure it out.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, you got to capitalize when you can, right that's right.
Jim Cripps:That's right Now, legitimately. We haven't seen each other in a decade.
Josh Gifford:That's right. Those of you who do not personally know Jim or myself, we have a strong trauma bond that comes from a cross-country trip in an RV that was gutted to be a video game party bus. It's a wild story.
Jim Cripps:It is a wild story and we'll get into that, but we've had some fun over the years, absolutely, and a lot of life has happened in the last 10 years. Yes, you've got an amazing family, lindsey, and you have welcomed Scout into the world. That's right.
Josh Gifford:We have a four-year-old daughter.
Jim Cripps:That's fantastic, because you were kind of in the camp of we're not the type of people to have kids.
Josh Gifford:We were until we weren't, and then yeah. So in 2020, in March of 2020, right before the lockdowns happened, we welcomed a beautiful baby girl. I feel somewhat conceited saying beautiful, because she is my clone through and through, but yeah.
Jim Cripps:Well, man, a lot of life has happened between back then and now and so we're in a lot different places, both of us Much better places just across the board. So if you will kind of catch me up you know I teased them just a little bit with kind of giving you the jack of all trades, which in some worlds that could be seen as a bad thing, but I really do look at it as man. You just own the situation that you're in and you're there to serve others and just kind of along the way you've built this amazing life. So if you will kind of catch me up, yeah, so I've always been a student of leadership.
Josh Gifford:When I originally started college, I declared major as my psychology, or psychology as my major, and it's from the books I read, the podcasts I listen to. It's just something that I enjoy learning about. And so last time you and I were in the same room together, we were both working in the sprint world and I took a detour into the startup space from there, spent a few years with a mobile CRM startup and then was recruited to take a job with a company in Lexington, south Carolina, in 2015. Moved my family there in 2016, which just consisted of Lindsay and myself and helped them bring the company to the modern times. Bring the company to the modern times. Went through a ton of digitization projects, just completely gutted their IT infrastructure and helped the company through a long 10-year growth just explosive growth. I'm talking like 30% year over year for multiple years uh, one right after the other, and uh, and now a uh and really it's kind of a modernization too right.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely so. Uh, just to touch on a couple of small projects that we completed while I was there Um, there are, uh, the EPA, the Department of Agriculture, has forms that anybody that's putting out any sort of pesticide has to have on file. We totally digitized all of that, made it a put it in hands of on a mobile application that these technicians were able to easily get into, fill out, submit and then have on file, uh, and preserve perpetually. Uh, in case any um auditors or anybody like that wanted to come check it out.
Jim Cripps:Um, and this is pretty heavy duty stuff. Like you've got to have a license to use these products. Some of them can cause great harm, so knowing where every ounce went is critical.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely, accuracy is important. And, going back to what you said about the products, we also went through a complete rip and rebuild on the website, got an e-commerce platform up and running, integrated with their whole erp system and things like that, and that was probably one of the biggest uh learning experiences I've had. Uh, since I don't know since, since the early sprint days, uh, when we were installing blackberry servers, uh and setting up some of those uh 88 30 curves, uh, and, but it, uh and it, but it was, it was, it was, it was. Really. I learned so much there I did not realize how much there is to learn about grass. Um, in fact, I applied all of that knowledge. If you were to uh walk down, uh, my street in my neighborhood, uh, you absolutely will know which house is mine.
Jim Cripps:The yard's perfect. Yeah, absolutely Uh.
Josh Gifford:I mean it, it, uh, I, I take great care of it, much to my wife's chagrin, uh, most of the time. But, um, yeah, and, and so in that industry there there's products that are designed for for you and I just the regular homeowner, Um, and there's and there's products that are pretty scary. And so being able to translate that technical information into simplified product knowledge, product descriptions, features and benefits on an e-commerce platform where people are trying to make purchasing decisions, it was a challenge, but it wasn't an insurmountable challenge. About two months into that project is when ChatGPT was released to the public, and so you know, I consider myself to be a technologist, and so anything cool that comes out that I can use in my workplace, I'm absolutely going to jump on it, and so the team I was working with we implemented it into our daily practices, and you wouldn't believe how much information you can distill highly technical, complicated, specific information into plain English. It doesn't do it in a way where it's useful to just copy and paste it, but it gives you the springboard that's necessary. It gives you the rough draft, and so, if you want to think about doing that for 200 separate SKUs, for a guy whose background is mostly sales management and technology.
Josh Gifford:Trying to write descriptions for 200 SKUs of very specific products, most of which I had never even seen before, and the names of these things are crazy, Some of them don't even make sense and being able to distill that down to give someone a good shopping experience, it was a great learning experience, but it also gave me an opportunity to add a new skill in. So you know, prompting a large language model is something that every big company is. I mean they are hot on it right now. Oh sure, Every big company is.
Jim Cripps:I mean they're they are hot on it right now. Oh sure, well, and I think too, I think you're, you're smart enough Early on you figured out that it was not a copy and paste, it was. This is a tool to help me do my job more efficiently, and you know I would encourage so. I mean, I know a lot of people are using chat, gpt and and other AI tools. I hope that they they look at them as tools. Much like the first farmer was afraid of the tractor, yep Right, the tractor's scary. It can kill you. There's all kinds of things that could go wrong.
Jim Cripps:Or you can use it as a tool to do more work with less and get more done and take better care of your family, and you know, I think AI tools are in a large way or that way in that. Also, too, I think your, your sales background, allowed you to take what it spit out and say, okay, well, this is, uh, this has been geared. And I don't know if you did this or not. Did you, did you tell it what IQ you were shooting for?
Josh Gifford:No, I didn't, but what I did do so early on. If you signed up for a paid subscription with ChatGPT, one of the first features that they launched after going public was the ability for it to ingest documents, and so I would give it an entire PDF. And these products have what they call a label, which sounds very simple. And these products have what they call a label, which sounds very simple, but in the world of herbicides and fungicides and things like that, you always hear the phrase the label is the law, right, and so the label dictates what type of chemical it is, what you're able to mix it with, how to apply it, and they're all a little bit different, but they're all also very, very specific. And so there's there's some things that carry over, but there's a lot of things that there were guys that I would seek advice on these products from, and one of them was a professor at the University of Georgia, and so I would meet with him periodically and just ask him like, hey, help me understand what's going on here, and he would explain it to me one way and it would make perfect sense. And then I would go seek advice from someone else who is maybe a career professional that has used these products and looks at them from a business perspective and not from a plant life cycle perspective, and I would get a totally separate explanation. It was almost like when my daughter was born. Every scenario that happened. You know she won't sleep through the night. How do you properly burp a baby? You know all of these different things. You can Google those questions, and especially questions that have two answers, and you can find all of the information stating that this answer is correct and you can find all of the supporting information stating it that almost the exact opposite answer is correct. And so being able to thread the middle, you know, or shoot between the silos, so to speak, and marry those two silos of information to each other was a challenge.
Josh Gifford:But again, going back to what you said about a tool and sticking with the farmer plant mindset Sticking with the farmer-plant mindset we use tools to cultivate. If it is a recommendation letter or a resignation letter, you can prompt ChatGPT the free version of it and say something like look, here's a draft of a resignation letter that I've written. Make it sound less angry. Or you know what I'm saying. Or here is a performance improvement plan that I've written for an employee, make sure that I am communicating empathy and care for this person, and so a lot of us don't consider the definition or the definitions of words when we use them, because when we're speaking to anyone, especially in a leadership perspective or from a leadership perspective, we're speaking to the definition that we're thinking of, and we may not be thinking from the same perspective as the definition that we're thinking of. Uh and and, and we may not be thinking from the same perspective as the person that we're talking to.
Jim Cripps:Well, and there may, if you, if you've got a room of 50 people, there could be 50 different understandings. So the definition of a word matters Absolutely. And you know, I think one of the things that you said there that is very insightful and I would encourage anybody to do is ask ChatGPT or Meta or whichever AI you're using, ask it for recommendations. That's right At the very minimum. Ask it for recommendations, ask it what type of feel it gets from this, and it will respond because it is coming from a much more neutral place than your own experience. That's right?
Josh Gifford:I'll give you a perfect example of asking it things. I had an employee that I did not recruit or hire, that was hired on to be a salesperson. This gentleman was literally one of the nicest people I've ever met in my entire life, one of the most honest people I've ever met in my entire life. He had absolutely zero experience in the industry and zero experience in sales, and so I'm real good at taking someone that's got experience in sales and translating that to production at this company.
Josh Gifford:Right, we did that on an almost hourly basis back in the day for years and years, and in the wireless industry it's like you know, it doesn't matter what company you're working for, it's the wireless industry, they're all pretty much the same, and so that was a very, very big challenge for me, and so I literally just went straight to chat GPT and I was like, if I have hired in a person for this role that has no experience in this type of role, in what order should I prioritize training them on this, this, this and this? And it spit right back out a list for me and it was like look, you need to start here, because everything else builds on this from here, and that wasn't anything that I had never been presented with that scenario before, because when we're hiring and recruiting people, at least some experience in that role is kind of the first thing that we're looking for, right? But that's not always the circumstances that we're presented with.
Jim Cripps:That's right. Well, and again using it as a tool. And one of the things that I really appreciate about you, and have for a long time, is, even though you've had quite a bit of experience, you stay curious Absolutely, and you've always tried to figure out how the next piece of technology either helps that or hinders that, and so you're usually pretty quick to add a piece of technology if it makes sense and then to use it, not as the gospel, but to kind of circumvent the learning curve, and I think that has absolutely served you well over the last at least 15 years that I've known you Throughout this. You know that's one of the things that I see. But you know, from your own perspective, do you have a motto or a code that you kind of live and lead by?
Josh Gifford:Yeah, I've got three. First one is everything happens to you, or everything that does happen to you, from the point at which you are released from your parents' custody, whether good or bad, is your fault. So if it's good, you made the right choices. You weren't lucky. People say luck is when preparation and opportunity meet each other. That's right. So you prepared, you had the opportunity and you took the opportunity. So when bad things happen, you made a choice. You did not see something somewhere or you had a blind spot that you weren't aware of, and so that's also your fault, but it's not your fault in the sense that you need to carry that as a burden.
Jim Cripps:I think it's an accountability thing, especially in the world today. So many people are trying to pass the buck as far as accountability, even for their own life, and I'm the opposite. You need to hold yourself accountable. If we to, if we're, if we're suffering today, well then we need to be suffering and then you need to work through it. I mean what they say uh, if you're going through hell, speed up.
Josh Gifford:That's right, yeah, Get out, get out quicker, Uh. Second one is um, nobody, nobody, actually cares about your feelings. That's right, Uh, and it's that. This is a. This is a hard truth. It was a really hard truth for me.
Josh Gifford:Um, because we don't, we're not trained on how to deal with our feelings, Uh, and if you think about what, well, okay, why do we have feelings? Uh, to keep us from dying. That that's what they're there for, right? Uh, I'm scared of that lion because it's bigger than me and it can tear me apart. I'm instinctively going to jump when I see a snake, because it's surprising and I know that it's venomous and it can kill me.
Josh Gifford:But we have these feelings that, in most instances, we can't make them show up or make them go away, they just appear. And so to understand that everyone else is more focused on their feelings than they are your feelings is actually a pretty freeing perspective, right? Because then you can kind of eliminate the sauce from why do people do things? And it's necessary, it's necessary, uh, uh, to have true empathy. You've got to, you've got to approach it from the perspective that this person is not worried about how what they do makes me feel. They're worried about how they feel. Uh, and so that's, you know it. I think it's very important, especially from a leadership perspective, to understand that the people that are in your charge aren't actually worried about your feelings. They're very much. They only have time and bandwidth to worry about their own feelings.
Jim Cripps:You know I do love that one. We've talked about that one before A lot Um, and then you know I do love that one Uh, we've we've talked about that one before a lot. In that the, the definition, you know, it gets it kind of gets skewed. I think people understand the word charge differently and it's kind of, uh, I almost think it's grade school that does it that that that skews this thing.
Jim Cripps:So, you know, people will say, oh, I'm in charge. Or the, the teacher, will say, you know, josh, you're in charge while I'm gone. Yeah, and really it's the people in the room are in your charge, or your team members are in your charge, or your family is in your charge, and it means that you are inherently responsible for their well-being. Absolutely, and I think, just as a we've got that wrong and we need to start retraining what the word charge means and how it actually works.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it comes from childhood play, right? If we're going to play policeman games as kids, someone is in charge of the play. It's typically the bigger or the older kid, right? And then my third, I guess, motto life creed, whatever you want to call it, totally stealing it from Maya Angelou or Angelo, however you pronounce her name, and to paraphrase her famous uh, people are not going to remember what you did, they're not going to remember what you said, they're not going to remember how much money you made. All they're going to remember about you is how you made them feel, um, and that's extremely important, um, especially from a leadership perspective. Uh, the, the definition of, of power is not how many people have to do what you tell them to do, it's how many people are willing to do what you are asking them to do.
Jim Cripps:They choose, it's their choice.
Josh Gifford:Absolutely. Power doesn't come. Influence probably a better word doesn't come from your title. It comes from do you care about? Do these people feel safe in your presence? Do they feel like you are going to eliminate roadblocks or that you're going to delegate things that you don't feel like doing? Do they feel like you're going to make them they're going to be better when you are done being their leader, or are they going to be stuck where they are right now?
Jim Cripps:Did they suffer through it or did they grow through it? That's right and that's determined largely by you as the leader. And, again, this is one of those things that we share. We're both, at our core, servant leaders, understanding that the people in our charge, it is our charge, our responsibility to grow them far beyond us. Yep.
Josh Gifford:Leadership is not a reward for your service. It is your service.
Jim Cripps:Absolutely. Yeah, we are 100% on the same page on that. You know, along this path, you know, again, we worked together for a while and then worked at different companies and then worked under the same umbrella for a little while. All those things you know. What would you say is maybe one of the biggest challenges that you've kind of gone through in your career?
Josh Gifford:Uh, I'm honestly uh, I'm in, I'm in it right now. Uh, I, uh, uh. I was recently laid off, uh due to a corporate restructuring, and so I am uh what I would consider to be a free agent, uh, in the marketplace. Um, I'm not, uh, you know I'm not taking a week at the beach uh, the beach to get my mind right. I am working every day to keep my mind right.
Josh Gifford:That's right, and so I'm currently going through my options. I've got a lot of PDU credits already established through different trainings and micro certifications that I've just gotten over the years. Just to keep my mind moving. Yeah, and so I'm currently studying for my PMP certification through the Project Management Institute Just something that I've wanted to do for a long time and just want to go take the test and get it over with.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, well, you know one of the things that I see that like I'm not worried about you at all. I mean and I don't mean that in a negative way but your support system is strong and I think we agree on this. We've never actually talked about it, I don't think, but we've talked about it on the podcast several times your spouse selection is one of the most critical, if not the most critical, adult decision you make.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I will be the first to tell you that my, my spouse selection was as shallow, uh and uh there was no depth to that shallowness. Um, I was introduced to my wife, uh, introduced to my wife through two mutual friends of mine. They called me up and were like hey, do you have any plans this weekend? I was still living in the Nashville area at the time and I said no, I don't have any plans.
Josh Gifford:And they were like well, there's this girl that we really like, that we think you would really like, and her 24th birthday is this weekend and we're going to be going out and celebrating it. And I was like was she hot? And they were like you would think so. And so I, I drove to Knoxville that weekend and as soon as I saw her walk through the door, I was like I'm, I'm going to, I'm somehow going to convince her to marry me. And I even told my mom that that that night. And uh, and when I got home, my mom was like well, tell me about her. And I was like, I don't know, she's an English teacher, you know, like Grandma, but she's really pretty. I'm like, and that was it. She friend-zoned me for like three years and I finally broke through.
Jim Cripps:There you go. We're a great sales guy. Yeah, that's, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Gifford:Well, guy, yeah, that's yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you say that I uh, the, uh, what, what finally pushed her over the edge? I had been out with some buddies, uh having a good time, and uh made a late night phone call to her and just acting stupid, saying stevie wonders, uh, I just called to say I love you and left it as a voicemail on her phone. Unfortunately for me, her boyfriend at the time ended up getting the message and so I ruined that relationship Inadvertently. It was not on purpose, I was just being silly. And so she called me and was like look, I've got tickets to this concert this weekend and you're going to drive into town and you're going to pay me for that ticket, and you're going to pay for my beer that night and you're going to take me to that concert. And we've been together ever since.
Jim Cripps:I love it.
Jim Cripps:Thank you, stevie Wonder Well and again I think we're both incredibly fortunate in that we have amazing wives. And then we have amazing wives and you know we had that conversation 14, 15 years ago. Yeah, you know that this was a big deal for both of us was finding the person that you know. And again, I think it really comes together when people are solid, well-rounded people by themselves, yes, but then you realize with this other person, they compliment you in the areas where you're weak and you compliment them in the areas that they're weak, and together you're just a powerhouse.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, my wife is extremely driven and I've learned more from her about organization and details than I ever would have learned otherwise, and I mean that's necessary.
Josh Gifford:She teaches 12th grade, ap English, and then she's got.
Josh Gifford:I think right now she's doing like a ninth grade and a 10th grade honors class, and to get all of those essays graded you have to do it in a methodical, like organized way. I'm amazed at the just her drive for other people's kids, for the for the benefit of other people's children in a, in a job that, um, she, she loves, uh. But I think we can all agree that we, we, we could probably do a little bit better, uh, as a society, in the way that we appreciate educators in the public school system, but she inspired me to not settle for just giving it all I've got. So I mean that's the way I approach work, that's the way I approach fatherhood. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to figure out the right way to do it first, and then I'm going to do it the right way and then I'm going to see if I can do it better. And if I can figure out a way to do it better, then I'm going to figure out a way to recreate that, doing it better.
Jim Cripps:Oh yeah, no, I think that's absolutely a piece to learning and it adds to your inquisitive nature. Just in general, you are almost hungry for what am I missing here? And I think that's one of the things that allows you to kind of wear multiple hats. You know, you've been in IT. You've been in business development. You know, most recently, as you stepped into the business development role, they saw some of the highest gains they'd seen in years. Yeah, and again, I think it's because you know that you don't know everything and you're willing to be curious and go see what others are doing. And how can I take those Legos, those pieces and put them together? And I think that's what makes you a great leader too is because you're not expecting that person to know it all.
Josh Gifford:No, you've got to model the behavior that you want out of other people, and that obviously number one rule of fatherhood, in my opinion, is you have to model the behavior that you want. In my scenario, I really have to model the behavior that I want because I inadvertently my wife's genes just didn't stand a chance with Scout. She is my clone, she's got my wife's mannerisms and she's figured out how to do some impersonations of her. But I mean, there's no to expect people to do things that you're not willing to at least help them do in the best way that they can. There's no value from a management or a supervisory perspective in just killing yourself doing everything.
Josh Gifford:I actually worked with this guy for a while and he told me this great story. He used to work at a grocery store called BJ's in Florida and he said he was the manager of that store. And one day his district manager comes in, just unannounced visit. We've all been there and done that, uh, and district manager comes in and uh, this guy, norm is, is running the register. Uh, he's. He's the first person that the district manager sees. And the district manager is like Norm, what are you doing? And he's like I'm running the register and he's like why are you, is anyone running the store?
Josh Gifford:And that really stuck with me, because oftentimes you hear, whether it's in a book that you're reading or in a podcast, that delegation is very important and it's necessary, and of course it is because one person can't do everything. That's why we hire people and it's necessary and of course it is because one person can't do everything. That's why we hire people. That's why we assemble teams is because we can do more as a collective than any of us ever could as one person. But from a management perspective, you've got to teach these people to operate without you as best as they possibly can, and so the only way that you're going to be able to do that is to coach them to be as good as you are.
Jim Cripps:Well, I think, I think, think about that like a football coach. Think of Nick Saban, right? Yeah, he is not allowed to put pads and a helmet on and get on the field, not that you would want him to, but he coaches, or coached, an amazing team to do amazing things, to bring young men together to accomplish these feats, and I really do. I know in my soul that he understands the definition of the word charge.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely, and it's let's break it down to even a smaller little micro scenario there. So a position coach right, a majority of the work that they do in coaching, that young man is watching them during practice, standing right next to him blowing the whistle when something goes wrong, pulling him aside, saying hey look, you're supposed to do this, blah, blah, blah. And then the rest of the time it's all classroom, right, and in that classroom they're watching game film. Now you don't ever see that athlete going and editing the game film and preparing it to then bring it into that meeting. And it's because that position coach has delegated the editing of that film and brought it in there so that they're not wasting anybody's time.
Josh Gifford:Everything is already set up and configured, everything's been planned out, everything is organized, everything has been communicated, and now we're at the final stage of communication. And that final stage is look, this is where you did it right and this is where you did it wrong. And that's something that I think a lot of us should model in the workplace. If you've got a team working for you and you are the one that is responsible for the reports or the reporting, you are the one that is responsible for the reports or the reporting, they're not responsible for achieving the things that you need them to do. And then also justifying that to, to, to your, to leadership or whatever in your, in your quarterly reports. Sure, that's, that's why you're there.
Jim Cripps:Well, you know, jack Daly, I think, says it best when he says that most little league teams operate better as an organization than most businesses. Yeah, and it's because everybody knows their role. Every one of those players knows what they're supposed to do, when they're supposed to do it, and if they did it right or if they did it wrong.
Josh Gifford:That's right.
Jim Cripps:Versus and a lot of times in business they're just winging it and you know. Again you've got to focus on high payoff activities.
Josh Gifford:That's right.
Jim Cripps:And each role has its own different high payoff activities, and so really, you have to narrow that down, put people in positions where they're going to succeed or going to excel, because it fits their character, it fits their skill set, fits those types of things. Now, obviously, it's your job to hire the right people and do those things, uh, but then it's also it's absolutely your job to ensure that they understand the goal, understand what their part in that is and how they affect the outcome. Yes, um, and I think that's missed a lot of times. You know, uh, this was after your time at the company we worked together at, but you know, I used to spend the first two and a half weeks of every month in the field training every single person company-wide, and nobody else in my type of role, in a vice president role, would have gone and done that, and I got pushback a lot of times.
Jim Cripps:I would say why would you do that? Why would you do that? There's absolutely no question as to what we are trying to accomplish. They heard it directly from me, yeah, and they know what their role is in the process. So I look at it much like a college football or a NFL coach. He talks directly to those team members. They know what the goal is, they know what their role is, and so that's how I led. And now can you do every business that way? I don't know. I just know that in our situation it was the right thing to do, and we accomplished amazing things. Not just because of that, but because I also had a team that was willing and they wanted to do big things.
Josh Gifford:Yeah Well, so Microsoft, you know, giant, trillions dollar company, whatever they have a leadership. I don't know if you want to call it a mission statement or a value statement or whatever, and it's three words. It's model, coach, care, model the behavior that you want to see out of the people that are on your team. Coach the people that are on your team to be the best version of themselves and then care about the people on that team. And training, honestly, is just as much part of the model as it is the coach and as it is the care part of the model. As it is the coach and as it is the care, we're not going to get better results if we don't do better things. Old doors don't ever lead to new paths, and so we've got to constantly get better ourselves, we've got to enable people to get better and then we've got to care about them getting better.
Josh Gifford:And it goes right back to where we started this conversation. Are you in charge or are those people in your charge? And you know that's whether it's Simon Sinek in Leaders Eat Last. Start With why. I would recommend both those books to anybody anybody that's in that's into that type of stuff. Um, or uh, one I recently read uh, good to great is. You know, put your best people on your biggest opportunities and you're. You're never gonna have anyone that is the best. If, if we're not cult, if we're not cultivating the best, if if our culture is not one of growth, then how could we expect our business to be one of growth?
Jim Cripps:Well, the other thing with that, too, is and I know that this gets lost a lot of times in today's world but performance matters, yeah, and every time that we act like it doesn't, every time that we use some government mandate, some government program, et cetera, in order to not hire the right person but to make an excuse as to why we hired this other person, Yep, we're doing a disservice to everybody, including the person that we hired. Yeah, you know it's absolutely got to be the right decision and you know whether it is or whether it's not. In your gut. There's a reason why you have I forget what it is, but you know they call your gut the second brain or whatever.
Josh Gifford:That's right.
Jim Cripps:When you get that turning situation in your stomach over a decision, there's a reason for it.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, going back to Good to Great, there's a line in that book where I think the guy's name is Jim Collins that wrote it. He says to be rigorous with your HR, with your human resources. Not ruthless, but rigorous. So do not hire for that position until you have the right person for that position. It's a whole lot. It is cheaper in the long run to just hold out for the right person instead of just throwing someone in there. That's good enough, but it's also it's on each of us to do everything that we can to make sure that we, if we are not the right person, that we're taking the steps to become the right person.
Jim Cripps:That's right, it doesn't mean you can't give somebody an opportunity. Also, you know, for a lot of entrepreneurs out there they're looking for this perfection and you know, as somebody who's hired over 2000 people, you know, in my life I've screwed it up every way you can screw it up. Yeah, you know some of this. You're just not going to get it right. Whether it was, you know, they presented themselves a certain way in the interview, whether you didn't ask the right questions. Maybe you're just green enough that you didn't know what you didn't know. This is a process.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely. And looking at it as anything other than a process is you're cheating yourself out of long-term success and long-term happiness. And one of the primary concepts or cornerstones of game theory is there is no such thing as winning. Uh, it is to continue playing and in business. That that, that is. That is really the goal that we're trying, that we're all trying to achieve, and that that goal is to play for as long as we possibly can, uh, and and, and, to have as many long-term players on our team as we possibly can. That's where the true success comes from. So, trying to win the battle you very well could win the battle, but you're not going to be a perpetual player. That's right.
Jim Cripps:And I always looked at it like because I was always looking at it both ways I want to win the battle, but I also want to. I want to be the guy that plays the longest.
Josh Gifford:Yeah.
Jim Cripps:And so it always gave me a way to win. You know cause you'll beat yourself up Absolutely, and especially if you're leading a team, you that positive energy has got. You have got to retain it. You've got to figure out a way whether you're you're talking yourself into it or whatever that looks like, you've got to give yourself a way to encourage the next wave.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, and a lot of us don't even have the capacity for that. A lot of us get so consumed in leading people that we don't bother with being led. We don't, and it's a weird thing. Because humans want to be led, we're drawn to it. My daughter, when she's in a bad mood, will be extremely defiant. And I say that she's not extremely defiant. She'll just shut down. She just won't. You know, it doesn't matter how I say it. Of course, I've learned that yelling is more or less useless at this point, but it doesn't matter how gentle I am. If I have made her feel unsafe in any way, she just immediately shuts down. And so I need to constantly be looking for who can lead me in my leadership journey, and mentors are really important. I would encourage anyone who feels like they're in a transition phase from having a mentor and now being the mentor to go seek one out. Yeah, everybody needs a coach.
Jim Cripps:Who's been a great coach or a great mentor in your life?
Josh Gifford:My best friend's mother honestly, my best friend, dustin. He and I have been attached at the hip since first grade. He and I have been attached at the hip since first grade. His mother, brenda Sellers, started out as an entry-level employee at this decal company called Chromographics in East Tennessee. She worked her way all the way up to president of the company. She is a one one woman show, uh, in fact, she, she, she, she recently wrote a book uh called you slept where, uh, I can't remember. The entire title is you slept where the, the, the calamities of a something business woman.
Jim Cripps:Uh.
Josh Gifford:I'll get it right eventually, uh, but uh, in this book it's, it's her, it's her life lessons, with travel tips peppered into it, okay, and they're all hilarious. I am not mentioned by name, but I am mentioned in it, and the reason I say her is I'll use a really specific example as to the effect that she had on me, uh, as a not only as just like my friend's mom, but like someone that really, like, made an impression on my life. And I've got to rewind a little bit back to eighth grade. Uh, actually, no, freshman year high school. Uh, dustin and I at that time were pranksters, really, really into it.
Josh Gifford:And uh, we had a bus driver that was a bit of a fuddy-duddy and he just, for whatever reason, just did not want us eating anything on the bus, and it wasn't because we were leaving messes, it was just because of the potential of a mess. And so we took offense to that and we're like, oh, we're going to get back at him. And so we made these signs that we put in the back windows of the bus. If you've ever been stuck in traffic behind a bus, there's these two windows that are behind the back seat. There's no way the driver can ever see, unless he gets out of the bus and comes and stands behind it. Anybody who is behind the bus can see those windows. Dustin and I made signs that said our driver is naked Super harmless prank. But they stayed up there for I don't know, two weeks maybe, and Sam, our bus driver, found out and we were no longer allowed to ride the bus for the remainder of our high school career, which is not a good thing if you're him or myself, because we were well, first, we weren't old enough to drive, uh, second, my, I, I come from a pretty large family, uh, my, my mom was not going to be able to to take us to school, uh, and then Dustin's mother, brenda uh, she was able to take us to school, but she is a extremely highly driven person, uh, and so she gets to work about six 45 every day.
Josh Gifford:And so what that meant was that she, if she was going to take us to school, uh, that we were going to be the very first people to school every single day. And so she said you know, no problem, I'll take these boys to school every single day until one of them can drive, and then they can drive each other to school, and so we didn't realize what we had gotten ourselves into. But Brenda loves Zig Ziglar and so Monday through Thursday we listened to Zig Ziglar tapes in her Z28 Camaro on the way to school and if we were able to answer pop quiz questions correctly and, you know, actually paid attention and didn't complain. Then on Fridays we were allowed to listen to Nirvana or Weezer or Green Day or whatever it was we were listening to in 1996, right, and and that, absolutely just those tapes are burned into my brain.
Jim Cripps:Well, again you thought you were being punished, but what a gift. Absolutely, oh my gosh.
Josh Gifford:Yes, I mean just simple things like your attitude, not your aptitude dictates your altitude, that's right. Capitalize on opportunities as they come. Just those two things right there are. If, if everyone could be taught that and actually, uh, understand those concepts, we would, we would all live easier lives. Um, and so I, I, I, I thank her for that, Uh, in fact I would, I would encourage anyone to buy her book as a thank you from me for that.
Jim Cripps:No, I love that and you know, for me it was a teacher and it was my parents, and so you know my dad grew up in kind of a tough situation, but always instilled with us. You know you can absolutely do it. You can do anything you put your mind to and really just that positive mindset, and then you know the path for me to become, you know, a leader and to lead others and to have this podcast was really born out of a teacher that allowed me to teach, and so big hats off to Kate McGlasson over at Innsworth. She's the Dean at Innsworth these days, so if you see her, tell her hi. But I do think that a lot of amazing people doing amazing things it's because a teacher, an educator, a mentor spoke the right things into their lives at the right time, and so what a gift from Ms Sellers there.
Josh Gifford:Yeah absolutely.
Jim Cripps:So you know, you've got a background, you've got an inquisitive nature that allows you to kind of dive in and attack anything. I mean, what's your dream job? What do you want to?
Josh Gifford:do? I mean, if I could find an organization that pays somebody to be cool, I think I could. I'd probably be qualified. No, I'm just kidding. I don't have a dream job per se. I am really, really good at running somebody else's show as if it was my own. I think you and I share that gene.
Josh Gifford:I've been told that I've got, uh, an entrepreneurial spirit and I, I I believe that, um, I'm not drawn to starting my own business. It's just not something I'm drawn to. Um, I am drawn to solutions and creating cohesive environments, and whether that's through technology or whether that's with a sales team, you know it's something that I've proven in my career. Granted, I've had four actual employers. You know, I've been lucky enough to have a lot of longevity in all the jobs that I've had. But I've also been told, in fact, more recently, that I've got the figure it out gene right. So put all that together, my past experience. That's why I'm currently going through getting this project management professional certificate. I think those are the roles I'm drawn to. I think that's the next challenge I want to present myself with.
Josh Gifford:We live in a world now where the nature of work is a lot different than it was in our parents' generation. You could be a laborer and make enough money to afford a house, car for yourself, car for your wife, put both or two or more kids through college and have a pension or retirement, and and that's. I don't want to say unfortunately, it's just the way that it is now is that that's not actually possible. You're not, you're not going to be able to afford all of those things. Um, uh, you're not, you're not going to be able to afford all of those things. Uh, work, working, working for the city, digging ditches. Do I think that people that work for the city, digging ditches don't have an important part to contribute to society? I absolutely think that they have an important role to contribute to society.
Jim Cripps:Well, regardless of the person, I think the question really kind of comes down to are you leveraging your skillset in the in the highest payoff? I think the question really kind of comes down to are you leveraging your skill set in the highest payoff way?
Josh Gifford:That's right. Why did we invent all these computers? That's right. If we're just going to continue doing the same things the same way, there are actually better ways to dig ditches. Now you know, there's heavy iron machinery that will absolutely dig the ditch. There's heavy iron machinery that will absolutely dig the ditch. And so the nature of work these days is that things are centered around projects and there is a big disconnect, I feel like, from operations, accounting, HR and IT. There's just they live in two different worlds.
Jim Cripps:It tends to be a rub. It tends to be a us versus them type mentality.
Josh Gifford:That's right. And let's look at the way that the entertainment industry, just as an example, represents those two sides. You know, you've got the cool guy, executive blah blah, and then you've got jimmy fallon's nick, the company computer guy, you know, and his answer for everything is operator error. You know it's your fault that it's not working correctly and that's not, uh, always the case. But you know, when we go through a computer class in school, they don't teach troubleshooting. They teach you how to type. They teach you how to open a word processing program and create a document. They teach you how to click the print button. They don't teach you how to troubleshoot a printer. And so that's really an area that I took great care in in learning how to navigate. Going back to that Maya Angelou quote, it's not about what you said, it's about how you made them feel.
Jim Cripps:Well, I think, I think you do a good job of bridging those two worlds, of understanding how to be empathetic towards the user who may be in a stressful situation. They've got a deadline, they've got a customer in front of them, they've got some type of situation, and then a lot of times the IT guy or the IT girl is kind of separated from that and their problem is the computer and they're less concerned with that person's feelings.
Josh Gifford:That's right.
Jim Cripps:And you know I used to have to explain this to new hires literally every day one. I would say we've got a guy out here, mike Chafe, and he's the get shit done guy, that's right. And so he's going to ask you very first question is he's going to say what did you do to it? He's not accusing you, he's actually asking you what you've already done, so that he can skip those steps to do the next logical thing.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, what have you tried that didn't work. I heard those words come out of his mouth maybe a thousand times.
Jim Cripps:Oh yeah.
Josh Gifford:Uh, they're burned into my brain, um, but like, look, look at the, look at the older people in in in your workplace and and think about how they feel when someone in you know I'm going to. I'm going to say a young person in their early 30s comes in and they're a hot shot. They know all about the internet and things like that. Or put yourself in my situation, where I have had plenty of scenarios where I have hired young people that I was under the assumption, because of the generation that they grew up in, that they had a technical aptitude that they actually did not have, and so I got to put myself in their shoes and think, okay, where did the world miss them? And where the world missed them is that they didn't own a PC as a kid.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, well, and it's even the mindset I mean, even if we go to an auto mechanics place, you know they used to repair the alternator.
Josh Gifford:That's right, rebuild it.
Jim Cripps:They used to repair the rear end. They used to repair fill in the blank. They would rebuild that component. They sold rebuild kits. Now it's replace, that's right. And so now the assumption is well, it's not working, I need to replace it. Yep, it's the IKEA mentality, yep, which may be okay for some people, but by and large, a lot of times it's a simple fix. We just have to troubleshoot it, yep. And people have gotten so accustomed to not even troubleshooting their lives. Why would they troubleshoot a computer? Yeah, that's right. Which kind of leads me to the next thing, and this one can kind of be a little controversial.
Josh Gifford:But we do have a little bit of fun with it and it's things we think, but do not say the reply all button should not exist. Oh, I like that. It's terrible, I don't know where let's think about. There's a skit that you can find on YouTube and I think the proper search term you would need to type in is like if reply all in real life, and in the skit you know, someone replies all and then a human walks around to every office in that building and says what the reply all email said and it's just the most like don't forget about me.
Josh Gifford:Today I bet I've lost hours of my life deleting emails that said thanks. Now should we just give up on manners? No, that's not what I'm saying at all. We should always say thanks, but just say thanks to the person that you're thankful for. You don't need to let all of us know that thanks exists. I have an easy solution, and this is going back to a Chris Rock joke it should just cost money to use it. If it cost a dollar to hit the reply all button, nobody would ever do it. Yeah, no, I agree wholeheartedly.
Jim Cripps:You know, one of the things that kind of ties into that that I wish existed is I wish you could download manners required. Manners for Alexa. Yeah, because I see every day. You know whether it's my child using Alexa, whether it, you know, or any of the voice platforms out there. I tell Alexa thank you, even though she doesn't pay attention to me. It's just because I do the same thing with chat GPT.
Josh Gifford:Yep, oh, I do too, I, I, I thank chat GPT. I say, please, I am convinced that I get better content because I am nice to it with humans, um, and customer service scenarios like there's. So ask yourself this when you're interacting with a customer service person over the phone, how long does it take you to lie?
Josh Gifford:I bet it's 90 seconds, oh yeah or less, it's and the reason being is we just want to, to say whatever we've got to say to get them to do whatever it is that we want them to do, and and we're robbing, we're completely stripping them of all humanity and all we're looking at them as is a barrier to what we want.
Jim Cripps:Uh well, I think it's almost the chicken or the egg, and I'm not excusing it, yeah, but it's. It's kind of this. It grows every time because we get let down, that they didn't care about our problem.
Josh Gifford:That's right.
Jim Cripps:And so then the next time it's like how do I make sure that I get the result that I need, because they're not going to care about?
Josh Gifford:me.
Jim Cripps:Which then makes them not want to care about you, because they know you're lying.
Josh Gifford:That's right. Whatever they're telling me, whatever they've done yeah, I've heard this 30 times today.
Jim Cripps:Yeah me, whatever they've. Yeah, I've heard this 30 times a day. Yeah, and at the end of the day, all of that could be fixed if, just as a group, as humans, we said you know what? We're going to be better today. We're gonna I'm gonna take better care of the people in my charge. That end up on my phone line yep. That end up in my cashier line yep. That I am, that I'm just exposed to yep, there's a.
Josh Gifford:There's a book called the Four Agreements that is. I would recommend everyone read that book. And I'll go ahead and, spoiler alert, I'm going to tell you all four right now. Okay, first one is be impeccable with your word, straight up, do what you say, say what you mean before one thing leads to another. Second one is assume nothing, just don't assume anything. Third one is don't take anything personal. And then the fourth one is do what you say, be impeccable with your word, don't take anything personal. Always do your best. If you can do those four things, you can eliminate so much social, professional, marital friction in your life, and they're all related to each other, right? So don't take anything personal. Goes back to what I was saying about feelings earlier. No one's behavior is based on you. Their behavior is based on their own wants and needs.
Jim Cripps:Well, and you're thinking pretty highly of yourself if you think that it is based on you.
Josh Gifford:You're crazy, but it's also something that you know. When we come into this world, we are the focus of two people hopefully, right, if we have a two-parent household, we are the entire focus of two people's worlds, and if you've ever met a four-year-old, you know that to be true, because a four-year-old carries themselves like they are the the center of the entire universe and and for and for the better part of their early life. They are the center of of that universe. Because we, as parents, you know we have two jobs we keep them safe and keep them alive, or and teach them to be good people. Yeah, uh, and so for round one is keep them safe and then we, and then we slowly start introducing them to to how to be a good person, because they can't, they just don't understand it. All they understand is that I got these two people that will literally do anything and everything for me, and they learn manipulation quick.
Jim Cripps:Oh yeah, they're great at it. And here's the thing as a parent, it is our fault, yeah.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, absolutely, we absolutely teach it and so it's not taking things personally is actually something that none of us are equipped to do without doing it consciously, without hearing someone say just don't take anything personally because it has nothing to do with you. Right, and that flows into assume nothing, right? Because we, as humans, when we get partial information, we fill in the blanks. We, we love to fill in the blanks. That's why our peripheral vision works the way that it does, because it's we're just filling in the blanks. But that's also why those if you've ever been through any sort of safety training and they show you the video with the gorilla and you know it's, it's like it's like a 60 second video and it's like yakety sax music playing, yeah, and then they're like did you notice the gorilla? And the first time everyone sees it, nobody notices the gorilla, right?
Josh Gifford:because your, your brain is just there's a lot going on yeah, there's a whole lot of assumptions that are that are being made, that are putting that puzzle together and so assume nothing. Is that that's one that's like yeah, measure twice cut once you know? Don't literally, don't assume anything, deal purely in facts and reality.
Jim Cripps:Well, the other thing with that, too, is when we, when we start to fill in those blanks and it's human nature to fill in those blanks, yeah, but we're filling it in with things that are almost never going to happen. That's right, like all the scenarios we play out in our head.
Josh Gifford:Your shower talk.
Jim Cripps:Almost every single one of them is never going to happen. Yeah, deal with the facts, deal with what you absolutely know that's right and make the best decision based on the information you have.
Josh Gifford:Yes, and so do your best.
Jim Cripps:That's right.
Josh Gifford:Right, so deal in only facts, don't take anything personal and do your best, and those three things right there are, are are are cornerstones, cornerstones to a healthy relationship.
Josh Gifford:A hundred percent, yeah, uh. And then be impeccable with your word, that one that one takes, one takes, uh, you know that that is radical honesty. Not radical in the way that the teenage mutant ninja turtles say it, but radical in the mathematical or musical sense of the word. The root, that root honesty. Uh, that again, which is something that we, we all have to work with, um, my, going going back to the lessons in fatherhood, um, I, I've never met a little kid that didn't tell little white lies or or hide things. And it's, it's because they've got, you know, big emotions that don't know how to deal with and that they want to feel safe and secure at all times. And so, uh, there's, there's a, there's, that's a muscle that you have to flex and you've got to exercise it over and over and over again to actually become an honest person.
Jim Cripps:Well, and you need your parents or somebody in your life to coach you through that, because if you don't have somebody pushing you into that, flexing that muscle, working that muscle to become stronger at that, then you're not going to.
Josh Gifford:Yes, absolutely. One of the I feel like the biggest challenge I've gone through so far in fatherhood is getting my daughter to understand that getting me involved when things go wrong allows me to show you how to properly take care of these things. Right, but going through these new scenarios, or something goes wrong, you spilled something, you broke something. Going and hiding it solves absolutely nothing, but it's her instinct to hide it because she doesn't want to. The reality is she doesn't want to disappoint me and she doesn't want to disappoint her mother, and so that is higher in her hierarchy of needs than being honest. And to be a quality adult, being honest actually has to be higher than the fear of disappointment.
Jim Cripps:Well, it's never going to serve you any way other than positively. I'm not going to say there's not going to be repercussions for something that you did, but it's not because you were honest about it.
Josh Gifford:That's right. And in leadership, we have to again model coach care, just like the corporate people at Microsoft say. We have to be honest with ourselves and we have to be honest with ourselves and we have to be extremely honest with our teams. And if we can do that, then our team is going to tell us when a risk pops up. They're going to tell us when an issue develops and we're going to be able to assess that risk and plan for it. Or the issue pops up and we're able to, you know, get together and figure out what our next step is going to be. We still have a goal right, we still have a job to do, and if we aren't meeting that goal, we don't have a job to do. That's right, and that could be me, that could be all of us. And so the trust on the team has to exist. Your team has to be comfortable coming to you and telling you like hey, this isn't going to work.
Jim Cripps:Well, and it's not just for the sake of saying it's not going to work. You have these environments that some entrepreneurs have created, some leaders, people in leadership have created and they really want, yes, men that's right, no matter what I say, I want y'all to rally around it, and this is what we're going to go do, and it fosters this environment where people can't say the real thing, and so you're actually capsizing the boat.
Josh Gifford:You just haven't realized it yeah, you're, you're looking at culture as a cult, right, right, Right. And so you're, you're, you're, you're leading through authority, authority from an authoritarian perspective, and in in, in 2024 and beyond, I'm sure of this. Uh, there is no value in that. There is a there is a hard point wall at you. Know that that you are going to run into. You can only get so far, uh, operating like that.
Jim Cripps:Well, and you? You want people that are willing to rally around you, but you also it's gotta be an environment where there's some fact checkers, right?
Jim Cripps:Of course I don't mean that in a social media fake news kind of way. I mean like you've got to at least have that one person that's willing to pull you to the side and go Jim, you're wrong. Yep, and I've been thankful throughout my career You're one of those that has been willing to say that. Well, you've got to be willing to hear it too. That's right. And then, at the same time, Leanne Simpkins, absolute rock star that I worked with for years, Nick Burr, I mean Johnny Robinson, Amy Savage. I've Johnny Robinson, Amy Savage. I've been very blessed that I've had a lot of people, but you also hire those. You are looking for that person that's not going to just pad your ego and say, oh, it's the greatest idea ever. Yep, you want a little bit of skepticism so that you have to convince them because it is that good of an idea.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, if it truly is that good of an idea, you can justify it without any emotion whatsoever and you should be willing, you should be excited about justifying it. There's a Sturgill Simpson song on his album Sailor's Guide to Earth, where in the song the line is I think it's the only word you ever need to know in life is why. And going back to Simon Sinek, you know, start with why. Give people the why before the what and then the how just kind of works itself out.
Jim Cripps:Oh yeah.
Josh Gifford:And so, as a leader, if you are doing the right thing and your idea is a worthy idea and someone asks you why you should be excited, because for two things. Number one, you get to practice your pitch of justifying that idea. If a customer asks you, why should I buy your product? As a salesperson, that's like you are buying my product.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, you're like, are you kidding me? Yeah, it's the best thing ever.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, these people. You will never believe this, but this organization that owns this building you're in pays me money to tell you why you should buy this. You have walked right into my spider web, right? Uh, I couldn't tell you how many times I was as a, as a college student, uh, in a sprint store and someone came in and was like, well, why, why should I get this instead of going to Verizon? And I was like sold. You are. Now you are sold. Oh yeah, you asked me the exact question that I needed you to ask me as a sales associate in that position at that point in time.
Jim Cripps:Well, because you're even like, I mean especially on the sales side. I could work anywhere, yeah, I could work at Verazen, yeah, this is why I work here.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, passion translates and attitudes are contagious. Is yours worth catching? And, as a leader, if your attitude around the word, why is a joyful response? You are cultivating a culture. You are not a boss.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, you're not a tyrant, that's right um, you know and I ask this because I mean, you've always been healthy, in my opinion. Uh, as long as I've known, aerodynamic maybe aerodynamic, whereas I was. I was unhealthy from an aerodynamic standpoint. Uh, you know, knock on wood, I am. Uh, I'm down 90 pounds from the last time you saw me.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, congratulations. Thank you, sir, it shows.
Jim Cripps:Right, right, I appreciate it and you know. Part of that is because I want to set the right example for my son yeah, you know and lead my family. So what does health look like for you these days?
Josh Gifford:So, from a physical perspective, I hate gyms. It's just not my thing. I just don't like to go physically struggle. It's like this is just me and my perspective. I'm sure everyone's is different. I'm confident that everyone's is different. It feels like we're all crying in a room together. That's just how my brain processes it. And so, yard work, man, I push, I push, mow my yard, uh, I it's pretty good size yard too.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, I got, I got, uh, just shy of an acre and and so my, my, my neighbors will come by and you know, be like you know you, you know they sell riding lawnmowers and it's like, yeah, I know, but I really like doing this and it cuts better, it just looks better.
Josh Gifford:Oh, it does look better and I have a four-year-old daughter, so I play with her. But I also, you know, I had an intimate relationship with nicotine that I'm embarrassed to say in the form of cigarettes, from the time was teenage, a teenager, until right before my wife got pregnant and it she would had was trying to get pregnant for a period of time. And you know I'm me being the, the inquisitive person that I am, I'm every day, I'm googling like what are the different in it, and everything that popped, every single list of reasons, was well, maybe the male has nicotine, maybe in their blood system, and maybe that nicotine is the problem. And so my wife and I are also very competitive. When we have people over for game night, it's important that we are on the same team, because if you put us on opposite teams, you might think we're angry with each other and volatile, but we're just competing.
Josh Gifford:And uh, and so, um, I, I was like I'm not going to be the reason that that we can't have a child. And so I, I was, I was watching a YouTube video one night and I, I, I, so I had quit smoking multiple times prior, um, and one time as long as 18 months and, for whatever stupid reason, just started back, but I was watching this guy. I don't even know if it was a TED Talk or if he was just being interviewed or on a podcast or whatever. I can't remember the entire situation, but I remember this one little point that he made. And the point that he made was well, it's actually two of them. One of them is the only thing nicotine is good for is making you not want nicotine for a limited period of time, and that really was like, yeah, that kind of makes sense, because nicotine is also a stimulant and stimulants aren't calming, you know, they're stimulating, and so I'm not actually like, if I get annoyed and go smoke a cigarette, I'm not actually calming down, I'm just stewing on it in a place where other humans don.
Josh Gifford:If you really think about it, is less than the discomfort of hunger. Hunger is actually a worse discomfort than wanting nicotine, and we regularly skip meals. That's right. Yeah, if I'm locked in on something, I, I, I, I actually like to hyper focus on things, and so if I, if I'm, if I'm working on a project or or I've got you know something that I've chopped up into chunks, and I'm and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm working through a, a micro sprint myself. I don't want to. I don't want to stop. I want to stop. I want to get it all the way done. Follow through is extremely important to who I am as a person and how I operate, and so that just stuck with me. It's like I have no problem skipping lunch. Why?
Jim Cripps:do I have a?
Josh Gifford:problem skipping nicotine, and so the competitiveness with my wife compared with that simple mindset change finally clicked, and so I have not come anywhere near a cigarette since early or late winter of 2019. And it got to the point where I'm I'm extremely embarrassed, uh that, to even say that, uh, that I used to do that, um, and I I've had conversations with my daughter about it, because, you know, she sees people out in public and she's like what are they doing? And I'll explain it to her and she's like why do they do that? And I was like because they think it makes it, makes them feel good. Yeah, uh, but the reality is, is that it, it doesn't make them feel good.
Jim Cripps:So, same thing for bad foods and those types of things or alcohol. Yeah, or alcohol, you know. So if I have six alcoholic beverages in a year, that's, that's a big year for me. Yeah, I didn't have a traumatic experience or anything like that, it's just I decided it wasn't good for me. Yeah, and you know, luckily did the same thing with Cokes, cokes and Diet Cokes. Uh, nine years with no Cokes or Diet Cokes last month.
Josh Gifford:Yep.
Jim Cripps:Congratulations, thank you, and I was straight up addicted to a Diet Pepsi, I would have punched you in the face for a Diet Pepsi. I remember, yeah, um, but it's, it's what we do to improve our lives, selfishly and unselfishly, for our children yeah, that's right and to set the example. So this next part is where we have a little bit of fun before we wrap up.
Josh Gifford:And it's. I need to look at my notes here.
Jim Cripps:Two truths and a lie.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, I got to my, got your cheat sheet over there. My truths are, you'll see. Let me get to it here. All right, two truths and a lie. There you go. I'm going to read all three in order here.
Jim Cripps:All right, and I don't know which one is the lie, so I've got to guess All right, and I don't know which one is the lie, so I've got to guess.
Josh Gifford:All right, number one I got grounded for a month as a teenager for being on the cover of the Knoxville News Sentinel with Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters and Nirvana.
Jim Cripps:I feel like that one's going to be true Okay.
Josh Gifford:Next orchestrated an online campaign to raise $3 million so as to buy out Bruce Pearl's contract from the University of Auburn and bring him back to the University of Tennessee after Donnie Tyndall was fired.
Jim Cripps:Ooh, I mean, I kind of feel like that one's true.
Josh Gifford:Okay, all right. Number three my friends and I recorded an album of Marilyn Manson songs in the style of Hanson.
Jim Cripps:My friends and I recorded an album of Marilyn Manson songs in the style of Hanson and we called it Marilyn Hanson. Oh my gosh, these are three good ones, and I don't know that you know this one, but Brian Warren, marilyn Manson, has been to my house. I did not know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was asleep, I was ignoring them. He was with a friend of mine.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, and a friend of mine, yeah, and a friend of mine, brad Bowes shout out to Brad was his sound engineer Okay, producer, whatever you want to call it for a long time and Brian just happened to be in town. They stopped by my house at like 2 o'clock in the morning and I'm like I see it. I'm like I'm not answering yeah they didn't know that they were downstairs banging on the door. Next morning I call him back you're just all asleep, just sweet dreams.
Jim Cripps:There you go. And next next morning I talked to brad and he's like man, sends me a picture. They're in, uh, miami. They were headed to the airport to hop on his plane to head down to miami, stopped by to pick me up. I'm like what? What in the world? All right, so of those three, I'm gonna. So of those three, I'm going to say of those three, number two is the lie False. Ooh, which one.
Josh Gifford:Number three my friends and I did not create a Marilyn Manson tribute album in the style of Hanson, called Marilyn.
Jim Cripps:Hanson man. I thought it was far enough off the reservation it might have been it.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, so the Bruce Pearl thing I ended up. It was wild. I made an anonymous style YouTube.
Jim Cripps:I don't know what you would call it.
Josh Gifford:I made a YouTube video that was just like the anonymous videos that they would, you know, like, threaten the government, they were going to release classified documents or whatever, and I just always thought they were so silly. But they were effective, like they're very, very good propaganda slash marketing. And so I created one directed towards the uh at the university of tennessee. Um and uh, and I started a gofundme page to raise three million dollars to buy bruce pearl I'm a huge tennessee vols fan. Uh and uh.
Josh Gifford:I started the campaign on a friday and by saturday at around 1am was the last time that I that I checked it before I got started getting scared was up to over $30,000 in donations. And so I went to my wife and I was like I accidentally have started something. And she was like what do you mean? And I was like, well, I got bored on Friday after work and she was like what do you mean? And I was like, well, I got bored on Friday after work and I bought this domain called we Want Bruce and I put this YouTube video on it. And then I went and started a GoFundMe and then I just started randomly posting it on places online.
Josh Gifford:And then this morning, espn was trying to get a hold of me because they wanted to interview me, and then Clay Travis posted the link to my video on Fox Sports South. And then one thing turned into the other. And what am I going to do with this money? Because is this illegal? Did I accidentally do something illegal here? And so I refunded all the money, uh, to everybody and just shut down uh the, the gofundme campaign, and uh took the website down and we did not get bruce pearl, but thank thank goodness I did not was not successful, because rick barnes came and became our basketball coach and uh I I don't think that we could have ever uh put ourselves in a better situation.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, he's getting it done. Uh, what a great guy doing a great job with the program. Um, in fact, castle, my son went, you know, went up to UT for a summer camp and, um, I'm going to draw a blank on the young man's name, the, the big, uh, big guy that went to, uh, la, dalton connect, dalton connect. Super nice guy. Literally had a conversation with, with some of the castles buddies and, and, you know, just took the time to, you know, inspire them as as youth, you know, and and that comes from the coach and everybody involved- yes, I have.
Josh Gifford:I am sure I have annoyed many a people in a Buffalo wild wings doing this.
Jim Cripps:I got you.
Josh Gifford:Watching Tennessee play basketball.
Jim Cripps:Oh yeah, absolutely Well. So last thing is I want us to talk real quick about let's just say hypothetically yeah, we were putting together a bowling team.
Josh Gifford:Okay.
Jim Cripps:And this bowling team is going to raise money for charity. Okay, so the whole goal is to get enough people watching it to where we make impact All right. And it could be any charity in the world, but we want to get that draw who's on that bowling team for you and then who's commentating to make sure that it's got that punch.
Josh Gifford:I'll start with commentating. I'm going full on Jason Bateman and Gary Cole in character as the announcers from Dodgeball For my bowling team. Obviously I want the backwards bowler.
Jim Cripps:Right, right, I'll be there.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, we're trying to shoot 300s here. I want Bill Murray in character as Ernie McCracken from Kingpin Absolutely, he's on my list too.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, I want the dude in character as Ernie McCracken from Kingpin, absolutely, he's on my list too.
Josh Gifford:Yeah, I want the dude from the Big Lebowski.
Jim Cripps:Okay.
Josh Gifford:And let's see I got Ernie McCracken, I got the dude, I got the backwards bowler. I need two more. I got five.
Jim Cripps:I got four. Well, you win one more. Okay, obviously me, and one more.
Josh Gifford:Okay, I obviously me. Um and one more, I guess I'm, I'm going to go back to the big Lebowski, I'm going to, I'm going to take Walter, uh, Walter as well, Just be. Somebody's got a. Somebody has to maintain the rules, right.
Jim Cripps:We've talked a lot about family and mentors and the things that got us to where we are and and kind of have built us up to be headed in the direction that we're going to become the people that we are supposed to become. Somebody out there needs to hear some encouragement, needs to hear a piece that they can plug into their life and make a difference, to help them take that next step. Yeah, what do you think is one piece of advice you could give to somebody out there that would help them?
Josh Gifford:Well, there's not just one. Look, if anyone ever were to reach out to me and ask for advice, uh, I I'm I thoroughly enjoy uh dissecting a problem for them, um, but I think the most important thing I would, I would probably want to communicate, uh, especially with someone that's uh been uh put in or put themselves in uh a situation where something happened. What do I do next? You are not your circumstances. Your circumstances are the opportunity that has been presented to you to grow. Pain is pre-growth and, look, this is one that is that. This is it, this.
Josh Gifford:I am personally dealing with this right now. You know, thankfully, I've been blessed to to make it 42 years without having to endure being fired or being laid off or or ever. I I've never. Every job I've had I had. It was offered to me, I didn't seek it out, and so this is something that there's books, there's all kinds of books, and you can read all of them. But until you felt it, you have no idea what it feels like. And we, as social creatures, when we're presented with that kind of social pain, we feel it, as our brain, to be seduced by the short-term pleasure that comes from feeling sorry for yourself, getting angry, wanting revenge, but there's nothing good that's actually going to come out of that. You're going to feel momentary satisfaction and then probably regret afterwards, and so, again, you are not your circumstances. There is always someone that is willing to help you find out who that person is.
Jim Cripps:And give them the opportunity to help you. That's right, because all too often there's this suffering that we do alone, and I don't mean a pity party, but you actually have to reach out to people. Yeah, you actually have to let them know that there's something going wrong in your life for them to have the opportunity to help you or connect you. A lot of times it's connecting you to that next thing.
Josh Gifford:Yes and accept the help Absolutely. Pride is something that I really feel like we should make very personal. It should be something that is a private experience. You should not project your pride onto other people. That's not going to get you anywhere. Take the help. It's not going to serve you, that's right, and you're absolutely not going to charge forward.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, it's your ego, it's that pride that actually holds you back from the thing that you're supposed to become, the thing that you're supposed to do, and so don't be afraid to open up. That's right. How does somebody out there right now may be looking for a guy like you, that is looking for somebody to help them take it to the next level, to help them bridge the gap between the IT world and everything else in their business, or to take that business development piece to the next level? How do they get in touch with you?
Josh Gifford:I'm on LinkedIn. If you want to search me by my URL, it's TheRealJoshGifford or you could just search Josh Gifford. It is a picture of my face pretty easily recognizable. You can email me joshuamgifford at icloudcom. I am, I'm ready and willing and I'm also being very deliberate in how I go about fielding offers.
Jim Cripps:So oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, even thinking about our conversation, you know there's a lot of people that would have shied away from being on a podcast or come up with 900 excuses. And what did you say? You said I'll fly there. You tell me when.
Jim Cripps:Yeah, absolutely, and so I appreciate you coming on the show. I'm excited to have seen you in person for the first time in a decade. Likewise, and I know that my life is better because we met all those many years ago. We worked together and we still keep up from time to time. And, man, I wish you the best and if there's anything that I can do along the way, you know that I'll be glad to help you and team out there. If you've got somebody, or if you've got a situation where you need somebody that has the gene or has the ability to own the situation as if it was their own, in order to make sure that it gets across the finish line, well, don't hesitate to reach out to Josh. Uh, he's, he's good people, he's fantastic. I've had the pleasure of working with him multiple times and and call him a friend. So don't don't be. Don't hesitate to reach out, josh. My final question for you is how do you want to be remembered?
Josh Gifford:Josh, my final question for you is how do you want to be remembered as a good father? That's all that matters that. She is my legacy, and so if I can give her every fair and unfair advantage that I can come up with, I feel like I've done a good job.
Jim Cripps:There you go. You heard it from a great dad, josh Gifford, in the house with us here at the Charge Forward podcast. Until next time, everybody Charge Forward.